Re: [MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2020-02-03 12pm ET

All -- this was the first meeting of the Verifiable Credentials for
Education Task Force. Thanks to all who attended. And thanks to Juan
Caballero for scribing!

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 1:07 PM W3C CCG Chairs <w3c.ccg@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks to  for scribing this week! The minutes
> for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:
>
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-02-03/
>
> Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
> Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2020-02-03
>
> Agenda:
>   undefined
> Organizer:
>   Christopher Allen and Joe Andrieu and Kim Hamilton Duffy
> Scribe:
>
> Present:
>   Uli Gallersdörfer, Kim Hamilton Duffy, Greg Nadeau, Adam Lemmon,
>   Alan Davies, Steven Pattison, Matt Lisle, Bernhard Borges, Nate
>   Otto, Kerri Lemoie, James Chartrand, Stuart Sutton, Hans Pongratz
> Audio:
>   https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-02-03/audio.ogg
>
> Uli Gallersdörfer: Hi, can someone point me to an application I
>   can use to join the call via pc?
> Hello everyone !
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:
>   https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
> Scribe+
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Describing how to do minutes [scribe assist
>   by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
> ... And some other stuff
> ... About the early days
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Charter:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vjrvwmvHOYmJd_Dqwk_TfGjKLTiTe9fzX9J4QqCUcf0/edit#heading=h.iem8mwq6o4rn
> ... Today we'll run through the charter as our main agenda item
> ... Primarily adding and subtracting use cases and requirements
> ... This work evolved out of the digital credentials consortium
>   (14 north american universities)
> ... All 14 had previously experimented on their own with their
>   own pilots (some but not all blockchain anchored/hashed)
> ... VC spec 1.0 is very new, despite over a decade of
>   experimentation and incubation, primarily in the education space
>   (openBadges, blockcerts, etc)
> ... Hitting a wall on interop and cross-verification; for that
>   reason, wanted this discussion to be more open and gather more
>   requirements and feedback from outside
> Greg Nadeau: Could be either
> ... In a way that fed into the standards track. IEEE is working
>   on ??? cm4 ILR (i? learning record)
> ... And w3c is of course pushing forward the VC spec itself
> Nate Otto: ILR = Interoperable Learning Record, in most
>   formulations I've seen.
> Greg Nadeau: I am leaning towards Integrated Learner Record (ILR)
>   but the White House and US Chamber/TX are using Interoperable
>   Learner Record
> ... We can version schemas that come out of this work, and start
>   iterating and experiment together before standards are finalized
> Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not
>   recognized)[2020-02-03T16:23:35.016Z] <juancaballero> PSA:
> Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not
>   recognized)[2020-02-03T16:23:43.267Z] <juancaballero> RECENT
>   JOINERS MUTE THEMSELVES :D
> Greg Nadeau: BTW - Kim referred to CM4LTS - that is the IEEE
>   Conceptual Model for Learner Technology Systems (CM4LTS).  Kim,
>   Nate, me, and others are working together on that.  Study Group
>   meets this Fri
> Thanks greg!
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Lots of these pre-W3C credentials we're
>   talking about use XML, whereas the W3C ones are so far almost
>   entirely in JSON-LD
> ... Since all the VC tooling so far has been very JSON-LD, most
>   people have just been mapping or translating from XML to LD
> Hans Pongratz: Is there are good web way to join the voice call?
> ... Understandably, lots of people are hesitant to shift to these
>   new systems with untested/new security issues in the SSI world
> Greg Nadeau: Hans     US phone: +1.540.274.1034 x6306     EU
>   phone: +33.9.74.59.31.06 x6306
> Nate Otto: @HansP You can use a SIP client (I signed up for
>   OnSIP), though reports are the SIP gateway has been a bit finicky
>   of late.
> ... One middle ground is non-blockchain PKI via OIDC rather than
>   DID-based SSI
> ... Existing university authentication methods are one way to
>   anchor, access, and sign VCs
> ... The great thing about the VC data model is that it's very
>   flexible on ToU, security and privacy considerations, allowing
>   many different kinds of use cases, but
> ... We have yet to really explore and stabilize the parameters of
>   those use cases around sharing and semi-public contexts
> ... But moving on to the agenda item here, we want to zoom in and
>   clarify scope and focal use cases, particularly in these terms
> Hans Pongratz: Thx @ottonomy
> Greg Nadeau:  Introduces himself (public consulting group,
>   boston)
> ... Active in IMS global heading up use cases (ontology format)
> ... Also worked in the IEEE on IRL recommended practices
> ... Also the US Chamber of Commerce initiative
> ... I queued myself when you mentioned making references
>   sharable-- that's 1 of 3 main foci of the IEEE group
> ... To be more precise, 1 SSI access control and trust network; 2
>   open ontology references; 3 verifiable assertions
> ... For these verifiable assertions to be valuable, they need to
>   be cross-walkable and semi-public, i.e. as linked data
> ... The mental model of the wallet is useful because the subject
>   of those credentials need to be able to share
> ... CASE network and other groups have been talking about open
>   ontology metadirectories
> (Sorry everyone my connection is glitching out often!)
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thanks greg for reminding us of what's being
>   discussed there so that we can be aware of it
> Greg Nadeau: To be involved in monthly IEEE CM4LTS calls Fridays
>   1P ET send e-mail to gnadeau@pcgus.com
> Greg Nadeau: To view current draft
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/10coLe1iBJ-zmzjl17GkN771JtdTKNIEZyPyCf4H4Y1o/edit#
> Kerri Lemoie:  Self-intro: openBadges for the last decade, been
>   working on my dissertation, and working with Dept ED on
>   blockchain verification for educational credentials
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Thanks Nate, will call on you next. thanks
>   for joining!
> Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not
>   recognized)[2020-02-03T16:39:27.785Z] <juancaballero> ... just to
>   throw out a question for later/food for thought: LIBRARY use
>   cases?
> ... How libraries intersect with professional development
> ... Does anyone have experience with library of congress
>   standards or other library work?
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Reminder that march-ish, we'll be releasing
>   Kerri's report, on blockchain (and other decentralized)
>   innovations
> ... That report is going to save all of us a lot of time
> Nate Otto:  Self-introduction: Badger platform at OpenSky : we
>   are interested in coming together and finding the next path
>   forward that will unite all our efforts over the last 5 years
> ... In envelopes, digital signatures, and DID Auth  / recipient
>   verification
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Simone -- can I call on you next?
> Kerri Lemoie: Library standards:
>   https://www.loc.gov/librarians/standards
> ... There are usecases in education that are ready to go,
>   well-documented and clarified, waiting to connect all the dots
> ... And leave the "trials while we wait for parts to come
>   together" stage in the evolution of this tech
> Nate Otto: Thanks, all! I'm going to have to drop off IRC to
>   drive, but I'll stay on audio for a bit longer until the
>   connection drops. Glad to get started. What I'm most excited
>   about is coalescing some implementers on a well-chosen set of
>   standards and schemas so that we have a working example that is
>   complete for use cases we define. Verifiable Credentials, DIDs
>   for recipient identity, claim structure, digital signature means,
>   identifier authentication (DID Auth?).
> Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not
>   recognized)[2020-02-03T16:42:59.675Z] <juancaballero>
>   Simone_Ravaioli: Self intro: based in Italy, work for
> ... Digitary (Dublin, Ire), although lately we're working with
>   lots of APAC universities
> ... We've been trying to keep track of all the moving parts,
>   including the European Commision work (most recently, EuroCat )
> ... Also we've been working with North American efforts
> ... We want to keep the perspective global
> Kerri Lemoie: +1 To global perspective
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Juan -- can I call on you next? I can scribe
>   for you. I'd like to hear about your interests
> Greg Nadeau: Simone - can you send links to best Europass
>   references and your e-mail?
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We might ask you to present some week soon,
>   particularly if you're at liberty to comment on these global
>   projects
> https://ec.europa.eu/futurium/en/europass/new-europass
> Simone.ravaioli@digitary.net
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Juancaballero: SSI company in Germany.
>   Working on uni and gov projects
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: ...Was college professor, worked with
>   registrar depts
> Greg Nadeau: In US, AACRAO recently endorsed IMS CLR
> Alan Davies:  Self intro: CredentialMaster
> ... Salesforce technical architect for many years, building a VC
>   management system on top of SF platform
> ... In its first stage, it'll be dealing with educational
>   credentials
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  One question i did want to touch on (after
>   Bernhard) is gathering claims
> Bernhard Borges:
> Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not
>   recognized)[2020-02-03T16:51:22.038Z] <juancaballero> ...
>   Self-intro: chief scientist at Dock (blockchain-based company),
>   but i
> ... Am more interested in privacy and selective disclosure, am
>   joining this call as a "concerned citizen"
> ... I am interested in DIDs to create indirection/redirection to
>   aid privacy and lifetime access considerations
> ... I hope we can all get to know each other over the next few
>   weeks and happy to be here!
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Yes! lifecycle considerations and privacy
>   concerns are of central concern to most or all of us
> ... With VCs, the idea is that decentralization and user-centric
>   control will be protected, although there is a lot of work left
>   to do there
> Hans Pongratz:  Self intro: Senior VP/CIO of TUeM
> ... In Munich, we are on the one hand issuer and, on the other,
>   verifier of a lot of educational credentials
> ... So we want to be ahead of the curve as all these systems go
>   live
> Uli Gallersdörfer:  Self-intro: also from Muenchen
> ... I'm a PhD student here, particularly interested in how
>   realworld identities map to onchain/immutable/highly-public
>   identities
> Steven Pattison:  Steven Pattison,
> ... Here to connect dots and see what's happening
> Stuart Sutton:  (Sorry my audio dropped)
> Stuart Sutton:  Interested in education use cases [scribe assist
>   by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
> Matt Lisle:  Georgia Tech, we have been piloting and doing UX
>   research on digital credential through the DCC
> ... Our focus lately has been on lifetime learning credentials
>   (rather than traditional tertiary degrees)
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Yes, usability and user research will be
>   useful here! We'll be linking to their study on BlockCerts
>   interviewing users soon
> ... Would be good to hear from others working with realworld user
> Matt Lisle: Report out from our previous UX research at
>
> http://c21u.gatech.edu/blog/understanding-student-experience-blockcerts-blockchain-powered-academic-credentials-through
> Kerri Lemoie: +1 User experience research
> Kim Hamilton Duffy: Juancaballero: Fraunhofer in Germany doing a
>   usability study. would be good to sync
> Greg Nadeau:  Suggestion: some of the things coming out of the
>   conceptual model guide might be useful
> ... Particularly interesting where they don't map well to W3C VCs
>   (terminologically, in particular)
> Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Greg may have a reference for CEDS, but I'm
>   not sure if that's not publicly available yet
> ... Project (lots of education data standards history and interop
>   there)
> ... Or in IMS Global
> Greg Nadeau:  The good news is that Jim Goddell is writing the
>   IEEE, which will thus be well-synchronized with the CEDS
>   terminology
> Bernhard Borges: Credential management/representation, aka
>   wallet, may be another shared interest
> ... CEDS is very US-centric, but this point of
>   translation/integration is a good point for interjecting global
>   awareness and counterexamples...
> Kerri Lemoie: Thanks!!
>
>
>