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[MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2020-02-03 12pm ET

From: W3C CCG Chairs <w3c.ccg@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2020 13:05:29 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <5e388b19.1c69fb81.f91b0.7932@mx.google.com>
Thanks to  for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-02-03/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2020-02-03

Agenda:
  undefined
Organizer:
  Christopher Allen and Joe Andrieu and Kim Hamilton Duffy
Scribe:
  
Present:
  Uli Gallersdörfer, Kim Hamilton Duffy, Greg Nadeau, Adam Lemmon, 
  Alan Davies, Steven Pattison, Matt Lisle, Bernhard Borges, Nate 
  Otto, Kerri Lemoie, James Chartrand, Stuart Sutton, Hans Pongratz
Audio:
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-02-03/audio.ogg

Uli Gallersdörfer: Hi, can someone point me to an application I 
  can use to join the call via pc?
Hello everyone !
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
Scribe+
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Describing how to do minutes [scribe assist 
  by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
... And some other stuff
... About the early days
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Charter: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vjrvwmvHOYmJd_Dqwk_TfGjKLTiTe9fzX9J4QqCUcf0/edit#heading=h.iem8mwq6o4rn
... Today we'll run through the charter as our main agenda item
... Primarily adding and subtracting use cases and requirements
... This work evolved out of the digital credentials consortium 
  (14 north american universities)
... All 14 had previously experimented on their own with their 
  own pilots (some but not all blockchain anchored/hashed)
... VC spec 1.0 is very new, despite over a decade of 
  experimentation and incubation, primarily in the education space 
  (openBadges, blockcerts, etc)
... Hitting a wall on interop and cross-verification; for that 
  reason, wanted this discussion to be more open and gather more 
  requirements and feedback from outside
Greg Nadeau: Could be either
... In a way that fed into the standards track. IEEE is working 
  on ??? cm4 ILR (i? learning record)
... And w3c is of course pushing forward the VC spec itself
Nate Otto: ILR = Interoperable Learning Record, in most 
  formulations I've seen.
Greg Nadeau: I am leaning towards Integrated Learner Record (ILR) 
  but the White House and US Chamber/TX are using Interoperable 
  Learner Record
... We can version schemas that come out of this work, and start 
  iterating and experiment together before standards are finalized
Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not 
  recognized)[2020-02-03T16:23:35.016Z]	<juancaballero>	PSA:
Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not 
  recognized)[2020-02-03T16:23:43.267Z]	<juancaballero>	RECENT 
  JOINERS MUTE THEMSELVES :D
Greg Nadeau: BTW - Kim referred to CM4LTS - that is the IEEE 
  Conceptual Model for Learner Technology Systems (CM4LTS).  Kim, 
  Nate, me, and others are working together on that.  Study Group 
  meets this Fri
Thanks greg!
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Lots of these pre-W3C credentials we're 
  talking about use XML, whereas the W3C ones are so far almost 
  entirely in JSON-LD
... Since all the VC tooling so far has been very JSON-LD, most 
  people have just been mapping or translating from XML to LD
Hans Pongratz: Is there are good web way to join the voice call?
... Understandably, lots of people are hesitant to shift to these 
  new systems with untested/new security issues in the SSI world
Greg Nadeau: Hans     US phone: +1.540.274.1034 x6306     EU 
  phone: +33.9.74.59.31.06 x6306
Nate Otto: @HansP You can use a SIP client (I signed up for 
  OnSIP), though reports are the SIP gateway has been a bit finicky 
  of late.
... One middle ground is non-blockchain PKI via OIDC rather than 
  DID-based SSI
... Existing university authentication methods are one way to 
  anchor, access, and sign VCs
... The great thing about the VC data model is that it's very 
  flexible on ToU, security and privacy considerations, allowing 
  many different kinds of use cases, but
... We have yet to really explore and stabilize the parameters of 
  those use cases around sharing and semi-public contexts
... But moving on to the agenda item here, we want to zoom in and 
  clarify scope and focal use cases, particularly in these terms
Hans Pongratz: Thx @ottonomy
Greg Nadeau:  Introduces himself (public consulting group, 
  boston)
... Active in IMS global heading up use cases (ontology format)
... Also worked in the IEEE on IRL recommended practices
... Also the US Chamber of Commerce initiative
... I queued myself when you mentioned making references 
  sharable-- that's 1 of 3 main foci of the IEEE group
... To be more precise, 1 SSI access control and trust network; 2 
  open ontology references; 3 verifiable assertions
... For these verifiable assertions to be valuable, they need to 
  be cross-walkable and semi-public, i.e. as linked data
... The mental model of the wallet is useful because the subject 
  of those credentials need to be able to share
... CASE network and other groups have been talking about open 
  ontology metadirectories
(Sorry everyone my connection is glitching out often!)
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thanks greg for reminding us of what's being 
  discussed there so that we can be aware of it
Greg Nadeau: To be involved in monthly IEEE CM4LTS calls Fridays 
  1P ET send e-mail to gnadeau@pcgus.com
Greg Nadeau: To view current draft 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/10coLe1iBJ-zmzjl17GkN771JtdTKNIEZyPyCf4H4Y1o/edit#
Kerri Lemoie:  Self-intro: openBadges for the last decade, been 
  working on my dissertation, and working with Dept ED on 
  blockchain verification for educational credentials
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Thanks Nate, will call on you next. thanks 
  for joining!
Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not 
  recognized)[2020-02-03T16:39:27.785Z]	<juancaballero>	... just to 
  throw out a question for later/food for thought: LIBRARY use 
  cases?
... How libraries intersect with professional development
... Does anyone have experience with library of congress 
  standards or other library work?
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Reminder that march-ish, we'll be releasing 
  Kerri's report, on blockchain (and other decentralized) 
  innovations
... That report is going to save all of us a lot of time
Nate Otto:  Self-introduction: Badger platform at OpenSky : we 
  are interested in coming together and finding the next path 
  forward that will unite all our efforts over the last 5 years
... In envelopes, digital signatures, and DID Auth  / recipient 
  verification
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Simone -- can I call on you next?
Kerri Lemoie: Library standards: 
  https://www.loc.gov/librarians/standards
... There are usecases in education that are ready to go, 
  well-documented and clarified, waiting to connect all the dots
... And leave the "trials while we wait for parts to come 
  together" stage in the evolution of this tech
Nate Otto: Thanks, all! I'm going to have to drop off IRC to 
  drive, but I'll stay on audio for a bit longer until the 
  connection drops. Glad to get started. What I'm most excited 
  about is coalescing some implementers on a well-chosen set of 
  standards and schemas so that we have a working example that is 
  complete for use cases we define. Verifiable Credentials, DIDs 
  for recipient identity, claim structure, digital signature means, 
  identifier authentication (DID Auth?).
Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not 
  recognized)[2020-02-03T16:42:59.675Z]	<juancaballero>	
  Simone_Ravaioli: Self intro: based in Italy, work for
... Digitary (Dublin, Ire), although lately we're working with 
  lots of APAC universities
... We've been trying to keep track of all the moving parts, 
  including the European Commision work (most recently, EuroCat )
... Also we've been working with North American efforts
... We want to keep the perspective global
Kerri Lemoie: +1 To global perspective
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Juan -- can I call on you next? I can scribe 
  for you. I'd like to hear about your interests
Greg Nadeau: Simone - can you send links to best Europass 
  references and your e-mail?
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We might ask you to present some week soon, 
  particularly if you're at liberty to comment on these global 
  projects
https://ec.europa.eu/futurium/en/europass/new-europass
Simone.ravaioli@digitary.net
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Juancaballero: SSI company in Germany. 
  Working on uni and gov projects
Kim Hamilton Duffy: ...Was college professor, worked with 
  registrar depts
Greg Nadeau: In US, AACRAO recently endorsed IMS CLR
Alan Davies:  Self intro: CredentialMaster
... Salesforce technical architect for many years, building a VC 
  management system on top of SF platform
... In its first stage, it'll be dealing with educational 
  credentials
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  One question i did want to touch on (after 
  Bernhard) is gathering claims
Bernhard Borges: 
Error: (IRC nickname 'juancaballero' not 
  recognized)[2020-02-03T16:51:22.038Z]	<juancaballero>	... 
  Self-intro: chief scientist at Dock (blockchain-based company), 
  but i
... Am more interested in privacy and selective disclosure, am 
  joining this call as a "concerned citizen"
... I am interested in DIDs to create indirection/redirection to 
  aid privacy and lifetime access considerations
... I hope we can all get to know each other over the next few 
  weeks and happy to be here!
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Yes! lifecycle considerations and privacy 
  concerns are of central concern to most or all of us
... With VCs, the idea is that decentralization and user-centric 
  control will be protected, although there is a lot of work left 
  to do there
Hans Pongratz:  Self intro: Senior VP/CIO of TUeM
... In Munich, we are on the one hand issuer and, on the other, 
  verifier of a lot of educational credentials
... So we want to be ahead of the curve as all these systems go 
  live
Uli Gallersdörfer:  Self-intro: also from Muenchen
... I'm a PhD student here, particularly interested in how 
  realworld identities map to onchain/immutable/highly-public 
  identities
Steven Pattison:  Steven Pattison,
... Here to connect dots and see what's happening
Stuart Sutton:  (Sorry my audio dropped)
Stuart Sutton:  Interested in education use cases [scribe assist 
  by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Matt Lisle:  Georgia Tech, we have been piloting and doing UX 
  research on digital credential through the DCC
... Our focus lately has been on lifetime learning credentials 
  (rather than traditional tertiary degrees)
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Yes, usability and user research will be 
  useful here! We'll be linking to their study on BlockCerts 
  interviewing users soon
... Would be good to hear from others working with realworld user
Matt Lisle: Report out from our previous UX research at 
  http://c21u.gatech.edu/blog/understanding-student-experience-blockcerts-blockchain-powered-academic-credentials-through
Kerri Lemoie: +1 User experience research
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Juancaballero: Fraunhofer in Germany doing a 
  usability study. would be good to sync
Greg Nadeau:  Suggestion: some of the things coming out of the 
  conceptual model guide might be useful
... Particularly interesting where they don't map well to W3C VCs 
  (terminologically, in particular)
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Greg may have a reference for CEDS, but I'm 
  not sure if that's not publicly available yet
... Project (lots of education data standards history and interop 
  there)
... Or in IMS Global
Greg Nadeau:  The good news is that Jim Goddell is writing the 
  IEEE, which will thus be well-synchronized with the CEDS 
  terminology
Bernhard Borges: Credential management/representation, aka 
  wallet, may be another shared interest
... CEDS is very US-centric, but this point of 
  translation/integration is a good point for interjecting global 
  awareness and counterexamples...
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks!!
Received on Monday, 3 February 2020 21:05:34 UTC

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