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[MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2019-10-15 12pm ET

From: <kimdhamilton@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 21:52:19 -0700
Message-Id: <1571201539950.0.10446@okimsRazor.local>
To: Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
Thanks to Yancy Ribbens for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2019-10-15/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2019-10-15

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2019Oct/0014.html
Topics:
  1. Introductions and Reintroductions
  2. Announcements & Reminders
  3. Progress on Action Items
  4. DID handoff
  5. VC WG Maintenance Charter
  6. Contributing to JSON-LD Contexts
Organizer:
  Joe Andrieu and Kim Hamilton Duffy and Christopher Allen
Scribe:
  Yancy Ribbens
Present:
  Kim Hamilton Duffy, Amy Guy, Justin Richer, Dmitri Zagidulin, 
  Markus Sabadello, Manu Sporny, Joe Andrieu, Dave Longley, Orie 
  Steele, Chris Winczewski, Yancy Ribbens, Alexander Hripak, Ted 
  Thibodeau, Christopher Allen, Kaliya Young, Ganesh Annan, Brent 
  Zundel, Benjamin Young, Daniel Buchner, David I. Lehn, Kulpreet 
  Singh, Shivam Sethi, Matt Stone
Audio:
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2019-10-15/audio.ogg

Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kim Hamilton Duffy: : Https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
Yancy Ribbens is scribing.

Topic: Introductions and Reintroductions

Chris Winczewski:  Joining from learning machine

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://zoom.us/j/7077077007
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Still have dedicated DID calls happening
  ... did wg has been launched and is transitioning over
  ... I can help put you in touch with the right people to get 
  involved in the DID wg
  ... closing out action items and work items
  ... the work items that are lingering without action, for 
  example waiting for major input
  ... the chairs will be going through action items and work 
  items
  ... we will be starting road map planning for next year
  ... if you do want to propose a new work item
  ... there is a github way to do it
  ... we don't want to force people to us github so i'm happy to 
  help
  ... lastly we will start asking for scribes before the call
  ... incentive needs to be discussed
  ... maybe send some btc

Topic: Progress on Action Items

Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22action%3A+review+next%22
  ... chairs went through to see what can be closed out
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/25
Kaliya Young: +Present
  ... ryan grant was working on test cases for DID docs
  ... no action has happened for more than a year
  ... maybe this should be tracked in the DID WG
  ... I don't know if this issue is even needed
  ... does it make sense to migrate this to the DID WG?
Brent Zundel:  From what it sounds like it's already in the 
  charter
Orie Steele: #25 Seems stale, should be closed.
  ... not sure if theres value in moving over though
Manu Sporny:  Agrees with Brent
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/4
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We have a Veres one method spec
  ... I get the need for a representative
Orie Steele: +1 For a good reference example for a did method 
  spec.
Manu Sporny:  I think I suggest closing the issue
  ... eventually the spec will reach 1.0 stable
  ... and we'll point people to it then
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  I do think the topic of providing better 
  examples for people
Manu Sporny: +1 To what kimhd said wrt. "more docs when we need 
  it"
  ... if it's irritating that the same people are updating the 
  method we can get someone in the community to support it
Manu Sporny: Wrapping up CCG DID spec email -- 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2019Oct/0015.html
  ... now that the DID wg is formed, we want to transition items

Topic: DID handoff

Brent Zundel:   We are looking to formerly close the ccg did spec 
  and other did related repos
  ... we would like to begin that process
  ... feel it's time to archive the repo
Manu Sporny:   Email says it all
Alexander Hripak: Handoff, there's a pun in there somewhere
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Please checkout the link
Manu Sporny: VCWG Maintenance Charter email -- 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2019Oct/0016.html
  ... now that the VC working group has finished, there's the 
  idea of having a maintenance charter
  ... the ask is to have this work happen in the context of the 
  ccg

Topic: VC WG Maintenance Charter

  ... going to ask once again to talk us through that
Manu Sporny:   What's the best way to maintain the spec
  ... maybe restructure if it's worthwhile
  ... keep the VC extenstion registry going
Manu Sporny: 
  http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/msporny/charter-drafts/blob/msporny-vcwg-charter/verifiable-credentials-2019.html
  ... there's a proposal here to extend the WG into a maintenance
  ... the charter would be open for two years
  ... this group has always struggled to move fast
  ... this provides an opportunity to do so
  ... this is a way to extend it in an offical capacity
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  What is needed from us?
Manu Sporny:  Does this group think it's a good idea and stuff 
  like that
  ... is what's needed
  ... looking for input and modifications and a resolution that 
  the group has reviewed it
Kim Hamilton Duffy: CK ChristopherA
Christopher Allen:  We are more than a liaison here
  ... I'm confused where we fit
Manu Sporny:  The reason this group is being pulled into the 
  discussion is for consensus around issues
Manu Sporny: This group is expected to coordinate with the 
  Credentials Community Group on consensus-based proposals related 
  to content changes for Verifiable Credentials Working Group 
  Deliverables. The Chairs of this group may choose to reject 
  proposals that are incompatible with this Charter.
Manu Sporny: Credentials Community Group
Manu Sporny: Research, incubation, and consensus-based proposals 
  related to content for consideration by this group.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  What is this? is this a ccg work item?\
  ... chairs will want to know how to track
  ... it's up to this group to determine how to do that
Manu Sporny: How this group handles coordination with the VCWG is 
  up to the CCG.
Christopher Allen:  I suspect the right answer is to say that a 
  work item is heading to another working group or IETF or 
  whatever, when a work item is heading in this direction, this 
  becomes another place they can submit results

Topic: Contributing to JSON-LD Contexts

Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/88
Orie Steele:  It's not obvious how to fix these issues in 
  json-ld, which has lead to ignoring the json-ld
  ... my hope is that for the VC context and for the DID WG 
  context, that we can create a single repo for it
  ... and make it easier to update
  ... I think there's been a recommendation already in the DID WG
  ... want to encourage wider context
Manu Sporny:  I think what we're talking about here is a set of 
  processes to update context and vocab
Dave Longley: +1 To Orie to keeping things together and enabling 
  updates in a single PR
  ... the good news is we can do this
  ... so there are a number of questions that we need to tackle
  ... what do we do with context in production
  ... vs things that are green-field contexts
  ... and questions around vocab documents and we 've been 
  ignoring the human readable entirley
  ... and two it is the best for us to keep it up to date
  ... and of course how do we get all groups on the same process
  ... I think a lot of this boils down to a process we have 
  around the DID and VC context
  ... this boils down to this is the general approach
  ... dlongley has started with how to extend
Markus Sabadello:   This is also being discussed in the new DID 
  WG
  ... the other thing I wanted to say is when Orie raised the 
  issue it was motivated by a PR
  ... and that leads to how to maintain the crypto suite
  ... that's all links to maintain the registry
Dave Longley: VC implementation guide: 
  https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-imp-guide/
Manu Sporny:   So markus raised a question around the VC and DID 
  has this problem
  ... so the process is decentralized because there's a group 
  that is in charge
  ... so they manage that
  ... we will push to the VCWG and this is one benefit of the ld 
  approach
  ... other communities may require just like formal votes
Kim Hamilton Duffy:   I'm guessing we don't need any further 
  action
  ... sound like there's a lot of support for this approach
Manu Sporny:  The issue you had is something the DID WG needs to 
  discuss. the question is how big of a painpoint is this?
  ... and we should move on it in the next month
Orie Steele:  Part of the pain is not understanding how the VC 
  and DID contexts are linked
  ... the easy win here is in a readme someplace is a welcome to 
  json-ld and here's what you need to know
Manu Sporny: https://w3c.github.io/vc-imp-guide/#extensions
  ... lots of conversations with people at IIW and I think ink 
  the longer term we need to pull people into the community
Manu Sporny: Agree with everything Orie is saying...
  ... if people aren't going to use json-ld and they do want to 
  uses a specific curve it can muddy the watters
  ... two phase process we should take
  ... first get guidance into readme
  ... and then if you're using json-ld here' what you need to do, 
  and if not don't use it badly
  ... people don're read how it works
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  The struggles are real
  ... I think this something the community could benefit a lot 
  from
  ... Orie makes good points
  ... also general call for help
  ... I forgot we had VC implementation guide
  ... it would be nice to have our guidance be more discoverable
Dave Longley: Bigbluehat is working on a best practices doc for 
  JSON-LD ... we should talk with the JSON-LD WG about what 
  documents they are producing and give feedback to them.
Manu Sporny:  Want to ack and agree
  ... the fact that there are still problems is really concerning
  ... the reasons it's around is it's a hard problem
  ... maybe people start reading about vc stuff through the did 
  spec
Orie Steele: People don't read :(
  ... the other challenge is people don't read
  ... devs copying and pasting instead of reading
  ... a volume of code is cargo cult code
  ... and not because of curious issue but a time issue
Manu Sporny: https://w3c.github.io/vc-data-model/#contexts
  ... so it's not possible to undeerstand in deptch
  ... it's problem when I understand enough then I need to under 
  stand
Manu Sporny: https://w3c.github.io/vc-data-model/#contexts
  ... once you hit the point there's next to no guidance
Manu Sporny: https://w3c.github.io/vc-imp-guide/#extensions
  ... you don't need to learn everything about linked data
  ... there's also a discussion about how to extend
  ... we do need to add to the guidance
  ... I'm at a loss for which readme to put it in
  ... I really wish this was at that entry point
  ... that's just a suggestion
Orie Steele: For sure the did-spec readme, not sure about VC...
  ... lets try to do a quick win and not get togher a write a 
  book
Kim Hamilton Duffy:   Something that was mentioned is that this 
  would be good feedback from jsonld wg
  ... so part of having the successful community
Manu Sporny: Yes, +1 -- to put it to JSON-LD WG... and +1  to 
  scalable, successful community -- we need /other/ volunteers... 
  not the usual suspects, new folks willing to carry the torch 
  forward.
Dave Longley: +1
  ... feels like we could do more to aggregate
Orie Steele: I've added some comments for the did-wg here: 
  https://github.com/w3c/did-spec/issues/5
  ... Thanks Orie and Manu!
Orie Steele: :)
Manu Sporny: Thanks Orie ! :)
Manu Sporny: VoiP; disconnect b18
Received on Wednesday, 16 October 2019 04:52:26 UTC

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