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[MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2019-12-10 12pm ET

From: <kimdhamilton@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:11:18 -0800
Message-Id: <1576091478618.0.35967@okimsRazor.local>
To: Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
Thanks to Orie Steele and Kim Hamilton Duffy for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2019-12-10/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2019-12-10

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2019Dec/0036.html
Topics:
  1. Agenda Review
  2. Introductions / Reintroductions
  3. Announcements and Reminders
  4. Progress & Action Items
  5. Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force
Organizer:
  Christopher Allen and Kim Hamilton Duffy and Joe Andrieu
Scribe:
  Orie Steele and Kim Hamilton Duffy
Present:
  Justin Richer, Nate Otto, Joe Andrieu, Orie Steele, Manu Sporny, 
  David I. Lehn, Amy Guy, Dmitri Zagidulin, Stuart Freeman, Dave 
  Longley, Drummond Reed, Yancy Ribbens, James Chartrand, Ted 
  Thibodeau, Adrian Gropper, Jeff Orgel, Ganesh Annan, Greg Nadeau, 
  Sumita Jonak, Kim Hamilton Duffy, Chris Winczewski, James 
  Anderson, Greg Kidd, Joe Kaplan, Dan Burnett, Jonathan Holt, 
  Heather Vescent, Adrian Hope-Bailie, Chris Webber
Audio:
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2019-12-10/audio.ogg

Orie Steele: Scribe+
Orie Steele: I have volunteered
Orie Steele is scribing.

Topic: Agenda Review

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  IP Notes, Call Notes, Introductios, 
  Announcements, Progress Action items
  ... Focus on introduction and discussion on "Verifiable 
  Credentials for Education Task Force"
  ... any additions?
https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
  ... calls are open, substantive contributions must come from 
  those who sign IPR
https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
  ... its easy and free to create a CCG acount
https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
  ... see the the CLA^
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
  ... These minutes and an audio recording are archived.
  ... we use IRC to que speaker and take minutes
  ... type q+ to <something>

Topic: Introductions / Reintroductions

Erica: I'm Erica Connell, hear to learn more and participate
James Anderson:  I'm James, working with McMaster University in 
  Canad
Steve McGuiness: been lurking
This is Greg Nadeau
Greg Kidd:  Dialled in, with public consulting, based in US, co 
  chair IMS Global conference, co chair IEEE conception model for 
  learning technology systems, looking forward to integrating 
  community worj
Stuart Freeman: I can hear everyone well, not sure why my 
  outgoing audio is bad. I'm Stuart Freeman, Application Developer 
  for Georgia Tech, where we have some digital credential pilots
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/

Topic: Announcements and Reminders

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We keep this page up to date usually, last 
  meeting in 2019 coming up.
Joe Kaplan:  I thought 3rd and 10th were only 2 meetings
Ted Thibodeau: Dec 17 shows TBD -- 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/announcements
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Stay tuned for the last meeting
  ... ongoing announcements, dedicated calls on DIDs on thursdays
  ... manu, please speak to the F2F meeting
https://zoom.us/j/7077077007
Error: (IRC nickname 'kimhd_' not 
  recognized)[2019-12-10T17:15:48.819Z]	<kimhd_>	1-2:30PM PT / 
  20:00-21:30 UTC
  ... did resolution breakout calls, task force within ccg, they 
  have seperate calls, happens on thursdays in the zoom mentioned, 
  1PM Pacific
  ... this year, we are closing out items, we may use one more 
  call to close items...
Manu Sporny:  As you know, we are discussing Personal Data 
  Stores, Identity Hubs, and Encrypted Data Vaults... this covers 
  storage of data associated with DIDs
  ... we have had calls with DIF, W3C CCG, Hyperledger Aries
Manu Sporny: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2019Dec/0031.html
  ... the calls have been well attended
  ... we have a solid path forward.
  ... see minutes, we have almost concluded that we will have a 
  joint work item with DIF and CCG..
  ... we are still resolving IPR issues
Adrian Gropper: Here's my action item in progress on the storage 
  calls about scope 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FBfs4shirUAtqD_d_t6F6oi2NZ0Y7400MDoYSm14Yco/edit
  ... action is on DIF mgmt / W3C mgmt
  ... we are hoping things will be sorted within the next month
  ... Dan to speak about F2F
Dan Burnett:  Yes, the meeting is 29-31st January
Manu Sporny: 
  https://www.w3.org/2019/did-wg/Meetings/F2F/2020.01.Amsterdam
  ... if you are interested, if you want to come as a gues, let 
  Dan or Brent know
Jonathan Holt:  Lets review IPR issues regarding restrictions
  ... not clear about overlap with DIF, would love to understand 
  more
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We are all not lawyers...
  ... lets try and get someone to speak on it
Drummond Reed: I have spent some years on these IPR issues, so 
  I'm happy to help explain that
  ... manu might be a good candidate to speak on this
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Moving on
Error: (IRC nickname 'kimhd_' not 
  recognized)[2019-12-10T17:21:00.061Z]	<kimhd_>	 .	
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22action%3A+review+next%22

Topic: Progress & Action Items

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  This link is where we keep track of action 
  items for review next... there is a lot here
https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/100
  ... the main topic of todays call is refered by christopher
  ... can you elaborate
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Moving on...
  ... Next issue, web kms... did key method
https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/98
  ... lets talk about did key
  ... we can move ahead with it, we have an editor... Oliver
  ... I have action for next steps
https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/99
  ... now lets talk about Web KMS
Manu Sporny: W+
  ... manu should we make this a topic of a call?
Manu Sporny:  I think... I don't know... probably a call 
  discussion is good idea.
  ... people may have questions, lets kickoff a discussion on 
  mailing list and maybe also some time on the call
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Next step, lets discuss on the call next 
  week
Joe Kaplan:  Do we have 2 editors
Orie is willing to edit
Joe Kaplan:  Lets have discussion next week
Joe Kaplan:  Seems to pass test, has 2 editors, we have had 
  conversations, let goo!!!!
Manu Sporny: +1
https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/97
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Next item, open 28 days ago....need to host 
  schema for current jsonld schemas
  ... no context, need to hear more to move forward with this
Kim Hamilton Duffy is scribing.
Orie Steele:  Issue 97 is sister issue of DID context hosting. 
  When you need to update context, update doc next to it
..Orie has open item in DID wg for something similar. 
  Volunteered to help move this forward
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Lets keep track of context hosting 
  discussion [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Hopefully we can close this out soon.
https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/94
Orie Steele: ... Need a process summary for VCWG
Orie Steele: ... We need to know maintence mode... dan progress?
Dan Burnett:  Manu and I had started a conversation around it 
  [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... We have started, but not finished the discussion
Orie Steele: ... Need to make process smooth, but without 
  confusing people about work items
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Sounds like it will touch on general 
  process, talk to the chairs [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Dan Burnett:  Vote is still out, needs to be charted... if your 
  AC Rep has not voted, ask them too [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Nothing will go the working group until it has 
  been created
Orie Steele: ... Probably end of january, early feb
Orie Steele: ... There is no place for PRs to go
Manu Sporny: VOTE HERE: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2019Dec/0000.html
Orie Steele: ... Hopfully we will have process in place soon
https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/32
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  One last item, issue 32. update crypto 
  suites to use COSE [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Any movement?
Drummond Reed: I voted!
Orie Steele: ... This is a year old...
Orie Steele: ... Manu and dave, any additions
Orie Steele: ... Should we carry?
Manu Sporny:  Don't think COSE is far enough along... [scribe 
  assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... People think its the future, but libraries are 
  lagging
Orie Steele: ... Doubt we can move or the next 6 months
Orie Steele: ... Suggest we close
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We may archive it [scribe assist by Orie 
  Steele]
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thats it for action items progress [scribe 
  assist by Orie Steele]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vjrvwmvHOYmJd_Dqwk_TfGjKLTiTe9fzX9J4QqCUcf0/edit#

Topic: Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Talk about what it is, lets check with Joe 
  ad Christopher if we need the 7 day countdown [scribe assist by 
  Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Idea is, launch a task force within the CCG, as 
  context, some of you may remember that we had a similar task 
  force, and we did not make a lot of progress
https://digitalcredentials.mit.edu/
Orie Steele: ... This has been pushed forward by the ^
Orie Steele: ... Consists of 12 universitues form US, CA, 
  Mexico...
Orie Steele: ... Idea is to help universities that are tryign to 
  use blockchain and digital credentials
Orie Steele: ... They notices that vendors were dominating the 
  conversation
Orie Steele: ... They wanted to pool resources to understand 
  impact of digital credentials possibly blockchain
Orie Steele: ... They wanted to be able to use their resources, 
  students, tech teams, to build prototypes of the kinds of tools 
  that students would need
Orie Steele: ... Idea is not that they would build a comercial 
  product
Orie Steele: ... They want to continue library support for 
  existing standards
Orie Steele: ... Prototypes for interop
Orie Steele: ... Storage, did methods that integrate with 
  exisiting university systems
Orie Steele: ... Those efforts have been ongoing, announced a 
  year ago.
Orie Steele: ... Slow to start, last few months, there will be a 
  white paper and planned for pilot projects
Orie Steele: ... White paper discussed requirements and 
  principles, and the use of DIDs and VCs
Orie Steele: ... Specifically, the difficulties of realizing this 
  ecosystem in the educational space
Orie Steele: ... Microcredentials, things like that...
Orie Steele: ... There are interesting concerns that come up with 
  Academic VCs, what happens if the student needs to reclaim...
Orie Steele: ... What are best practices for student privacy, 
  legal issues, etc....
Orie Steele: ... During our discussion, because of GDPR, things 
  are complicated...
Orie Steele: ... GDPR promotes privacy by design, we decided to 
  focus on it as the start for privacy...
Orie Steele: ... We are woking to figure out how to deploy these 
  things and uni's
Orie Steele: ... We need to discuss, how to make this work with 
  more than just 12 universities
Orie Steele: ... We want to align with the other ongoing efforts 
  for promoting learner sovereignty
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Not just limited to production, how are they 
  used, what will consume them, how do we work with comercial 
  partners [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Many data standards won't comprehend VCs and may 
  include PII
Orie Steele: ... DIDs are a new concept
Orie Steele: ... Many assume the VC is hosted by the issuer or a 
  trusted 3rd party...
Orie Steele: ... Assumptions start to pollute the data model, and 
  we need to resolve through discussion with education inst. and 
  comercial partners
Orie Steele: ... Work ongoing at T3
Orie Steele: ... We wanted to focus on the questions that are 
  specific to the VC ecosystem
Orie Steele: ... How do we use terms of use? to prevent resharing
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We don't want to reinvent, we want to think 
  through the migration to a VC data model [scribe assist by Orie 
  Steele]
Orie Steele: ... From data format concerns with XML....
Orie Steele: ... Should we express VCs in XML?
Orie Steele: ... There have been lots of work with OpenBadges
Orie Steele: ... Other concerns, how do we avoid segmentation
Nate Otto: (The Europass Digital Credentials Infrastructure 
  project has chosen a VC + XML approach)
Orie Steele: ... There will be variations, people should not need 
  to reinvent
Orie Steele: ... Leaner as an alternative to subject in 
  terminology
Orie Steele: ... Consider lifecycle, recovery,
Orie Steele: ... Options for universities to recognize or reissue 
  from universities that may disapear
Orie Steele: ... Deliverables...
Orie Steele: ... Use cases  are standard
Orie Steele: ... Credentials capturing professional development, 
  diplomas and transcripts
Orie Steele: ... Other credentials are not out of scope, but we 
  are seeking alignment
Orie Steele: ... Around common points, like diplomas
Orie Steele: ... We call out relationships to external groups: 
  W3C CCG, W3C DID....
Orie Steele: ... We need a way to ask for clarifications...
Orie Steele: ... We don't want to reinvent, we will rely on 
  industry expert partners
Orie Steele: ... We need to discover existing credential schemas, 
  or understand why they don't work
Orie Steele: ... Learner, worker, military ecosystem under 
  discussion by T3
Orie Steele: ... For Co Chairs: we have Kim from MIT and James 
  from McMaster
Manu Sporny:  Thanks kim, the task force writeup is excellent.... 
  there has been an explosion about learner records, credentials, 
  US gov interests... [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Drummond Reed: The "explosion" is a natural consequence of the 
  Verifiable Credentials Data Model spec going to 1.0.
Orie Steele: ... Where is the center of mass?
Orie Steele: ... Deliverables seem concrete, professional dev, 
  diplomas, transcripts
Orie Steele: ... Wondering how the community can help with it?
Orie Steele: ... I don't see where some things fit in...
Orie Steele: ... What is the focus?
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  There are a few specific things, related to 
  IPR [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... T3 innovation network seems to be the center of 
  mass
Orie Steele: ... We see industry partners joining there
Orie Steele: ... When it comes to moving standards forward, IPR 
  comes up
Orie Steele: ... The task force is not a standards body, we want 
  to have the converstations that go into drafts be protected.
Orie Steele: ... Stay tuned for greg to produce a map / graph of 
  how things relate to eachother
Orie Steele: ... I am involved in all of them...
Nate Otto: (When my spot on the queue comes up I can address 
  non-IPR aspects of the "center of mass" question. There are other 
  efforts reaching varying stages of maturity that have strongly 
  affected the recent uptick in hype in the educational use cases 
  besides VC 1.0)
Orie Steele: ... We have been disucssing, there are fuzy edges
Orie Steele: ... There are IEEE, and <inaudiable>
Orie Steele: ... We are keen to not reinvent things
Orie Steele: ... We plan to offload as much as possible to 
  standards bodies
Orie Steele: ... We will release guidance for IMS Global
Orie Steele: ... There are impacts regarding verification that 
  will take time to understand the impact to existing ecosystems
Orie Steele: ... For all of us in the space, its very muddy, we 
  need a map of group activity and deliverables
Orie Steele: ... We want to find the best place to do the right 
  work
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  Im interested in healthcare, should I wait 
  for ed vertical to formalize before i advocate healthcare group? 
  [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Manu please respond... regarding other 
  verticals, such as gov records [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Joe Kaplan:  All members of task force with join CCG and sign 
  CLA? [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Unless something comes up that requries further 
  discussion / objection
Orie Steele: ... We do not need 7 days, we can approve the task 
  force
Drummond Reed: +1 To approving on this call
Chris Webber:  Echoing support for the task force [scribe assist 
  by Orie Steele]
Manu Sporny: +1 In favor of this task force.
Orie Steele: ... I would like to be part of that
Orie Steele: ... Also appreciate greg, if you are putting that 
  map together
Orie Steele: ... I think its important to reach our to the groups 
  that are doing this work, we can get help from data exchange side
Nate Otto:  I have been involved, can shed some light on center 
  of mass [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... There are pools of mass
Orie Steele: ... We can shine light on a single end to end use 
  case
Orie Steele: ... We can identify a purpose, set of technologies 
  to serve that use case
Orie Steele: ... Its important to get end to end
Dan Burnett: Educational use case was one of the primary ones 
  targeted in the original VCWG charter, so good to see this run to 
  broad support and deployment
Orie Steele: ... We need to uncover real world value and address 
  it
Orie Steele: ... Excited to get started, we have this cluster of 
  tech, VC Data Model, OpenBades, DIDs, etc...
Orie Steele: ... We can show a path through these
Chris Winczewski: Helping Orie out with notes because the names 
  are difficult. Please include ARUUC, AACRAO, and the Gronigen 
  Declaration Network in the conversation.
Orie Steele: ... We ca help explain how conversation and 
  compatability wors
Orie Steele: ... We have partners ready to go to production that 
  do millions of creds per year
Drummond Reed:  Task force sounds good. Lots of interest exists. 
  Several folks Evernym can recommend. There is an explosion 
  because we have VC Data Model 1.0! [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Excited congrats
Manu Sporny:  There are other verticals interested, federal 
  governments interested in doing work here [scribe assist by Orie 
  Steele]
Orie Steele: ... We are seeing education space vertical
Orie Steele: ... We will see US, CA federal similar veritical 
  work in groups
Orie Steele: ... Some overlap exists between healthcare and 
  education use cases
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thanks all [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Received on Wednesday, 11 December 2019 19:11:24 UTC

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