Re: Credentials CG charter vote result

Hi Kim,

apologies if the meta was difficult.

Spec needs to support URIs.

more later.

Tim.H.

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 16:05 Kim Hamilton Duffy <kim@learningmachine.com>
wrote:

> Hello Tim,
> Could you be precise about your concerns? I value directness.
>
> Best,
> Kim
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 8:53 PM Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Adam,
>>
>> Cheers.  We've been doing some work in the area, indeed i'm doing some
>> work on it right now.
>>
>> seeAlso: (not exhaustively)
>> - https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1437
>> - https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1525
>>
>> and notably also: https://www.w3.org/Talks/2001/12-semweb-offices/all.htm
>>
>>
>> therein also; is the underlying assumption of a URI.
>>
>> Tim.
>>
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 14:40 Adam Sobieski <adamsobieski@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing those documents. Based upon the first problem that
>>> you indicate in your discussion, pertaining to types of articles, you might
>>> be interested in:
>>> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/verifiable-news/journalistic-schemas.html and
>>> https://schema.org/docs/news.html .
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> *From:* Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* ‎Friday‎, ‎October‎ ‎20‎, ‎2017 ‎9‎:‎24‎ ‎PM
>>> *To:* Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, Kim Hamilton Duffy
>>> <kim@learningmachine.com>, public-credentials@w3.org
>>>
>>> and FWIW - Verifiable News?  i mean...  really?
>>>
>>> don't get me wrong.  it's an area i've been working on for some time
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPghC4ra6QLhaHhW8QvPJRMKGEXT7KaZtG_7s5-UQrw/edit#
>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQQLPzTjZ8JuI1ZPy-xx5KOFffroV9qEJGx7LllD57i3aEp-CpcH9s1tblgAwT2hU2H5uLtYKGnT7s5/pub> -
>>> indeed you'll even see the section i put in there "Linked-Data,
>>> Ontologies and Verifiable Claims"
>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPghC4ra6QLhaHhW8QvPJRMKGEXT7KaZtG_7s5-UQrw/edit#heading=h.19e53f97toth>
>>>
>>>
>>> anyhow.  I just...  dunno.  Will get back to you.  Diversity is
>>> important...
>>>
>>> Tim.
>>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 12:05 Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll go through and do a proper review and respond more effectively;
>>>> noting,
>>>>
>>>> 1. The call schedule is currently for the early hours of my morning.  I
>>>> believe there were studies (can't find the link) that showed it doesn't
>>>> matter where people are in the world, scheduling global activities for
>>>> participation at 2am in the morning generally doesn't work for people.   I
>>>> guess, that's why the time of the call is not at that hour for you.   I
>>>> believe there were two issues about 2am calls, a. attendance and b. people
>>>> are grumpy / not at their best ;)
>>>>
>>>> I've been trying to do more advocacy and related work here locally; and
>>>> as such, had to make choices.  (believing also, the work was in trusted
>>>> hands ;) ).
>>>>
>>>> 2. The older materials weren't archived or available via some form of
>>>> version control; it was just all updated.   So, here am i looking for the
>>>> older references and the URIs, far from cool, said a very different story.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Someone else asked about commenting on the RWOT Spec and the
>>>> suggestion was that it would be better if only those who attended the RWoT
>>>> event comment.  :(
>>>>
>>>> 4. I then did a review, to see whether my other core assumptions about
>>>> the work on VCs (ie: verifiable claim documents) was proceeding as
>>>> expected; and saw a bunch of stuff that well..
>>>>
>>>> all very unexpected.
>>>>
>>>> 'identity' is too often over simplified and certainly also the subject
>>>> of actors seeking to usurp for commercial gains. to do otherwise is so
>>>> very, very complicated.  interestingly these issues do not appear to
>>>> negatively effect the 'identity' of legal persons ("persona ficta")
>>>> anywhere near the prevalence of problems for natural persons.
>>>>
>>>> 5. HTTP-SIGNATURES in relation to RDF documents was / is a beautifully
>>>> simple solution to a variety of problems. It provided something a WACd
>>>> WebID otherwise could not do.  Whilst there are still an array of issues
>>>> about how to ensure the integrity of that document (and its secured
>>>> references), the previous charter explicitly stated "identity credentials"
>>>> and "http signatures"; both are lost in the new version.
>>>>
>>>> I also see the works in OASIS (where some of it started from memory)
>>>> and some other dynamics which whilst i'm fully supportive of people doing
>>>> good things however they seek to;  felt it wasn't necessarily where i was
>>>> going - and the things i most cared about, seemed..
>>>>
>>>> well.  as a consequence of my flagging concerns, some changes have
>>>> already happened.  so i guess, some of my points must to some-degree have
>>>> been taken into consideration.
>>>>
>>>> i'll have another, better look into it.   I've been busy on related
>>>> works with some assumptions in-place, that i'll check are are ok.
>>>>
>>>> As noted; its my view that we need to ensure diversity, which is a very
>>>> important attribute of identity, depending on the definition used.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 00:02 Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/19/2017 05:23 PM, Kim Hamilton Duffy wrote:
>>>>> > * <https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/charter-20140808/>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > As for the state of the previous work items, they seem to map to
>>>>> > more refined work items in progress now (e.g. DIDs) but I'm not
>>>>> > familiar with the history, so I'll let someone else weigh in.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the general take away is that the group discussed our new
>>>>> charter for multiple months, debated it on the calls, sent minutes out
>>>>> related to the debate to the mailing list, commented on the charter via
>>>>> Google Docs, discussed it at various RWoT events... net net - lots of
>>>>> discussion and debate went into the current charter before it was
>>>>> accepted per the CG process.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think you flagged this at WWW2017 also.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The new charter we have now had consensus when it was passed at the
>>>>> time
>>>>> (and I suspect still has broad consensus).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That info should be added to the new charter as it was for the last
>>>> one. (ideally, without unnecessarily deleting history).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- manu
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>>>> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>>> blog: Rebalancing How the Web is Built
>>>>> http://manu.sporny.org/2016/rebalancing/
>>>>>
>>>> --
> Kim Hamilton Duffy
> CTO & Principal Architect Learning Machine
> Co-chair W3C Credentials Community Group
> 400 Main Street Building E19-732, Cambridge, MA 02139
>
> kim@learningmachine.com | kimhd@mit.edu
> 425-652-0150 | LearningMachine.com
>