Re: Credentials CG charter vote result

Hello Tim,
Could you be precise about your concerns? I value directness.

Best,
Kim

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 8:53 PM Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Adam,
>
> Cheers.  We've been doing some work in the area, indeed i'm doing some
> work on it right now.
>
> seeAlso: (not exhaustively)
> - https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1437
> - https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1525
>
> and notably also: https://www.w3.org/Talks/2001/12-semweb-offices/all.htm
>
> therein also; is the underlying assumption of a URI.
>
> Tim.
>
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 14:40 Adam Sobieski <adamsobieski@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tim,
>>
>> Thanks for sharing those documents. Based upon the first problem that you
>> indicate in your discussion, pertaining to types of articles, you might be
>> interested in:
>> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/verifiable-news/journalistic-schemas.html and
>> https://schema.org/docs/news.html .
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Adam
>>
>> *From:* Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* ‎Friday‎, ‎October‎ ‎20‎, ‎2017 ‎9‎:‎24‎ ‎PM
>> *To:* Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, Kim Hamilton Duffy
>> <kim@learningmachine.com>, public-credentials@w3.org
>>
>> and FWIW - Verifiable News?  i mean...  really?
>>
>> don't get me wrong.  it's an area i've been working on for some time
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPghC4ra6QLhaHhW8QvPJRMKGEXT7KaZtG_7s5-UQrw/edit#
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQQLPzTjZ8JuI1ZPy-xx5KOFffroV9qEJGx7LllD57i3aEp-CpcH9s1tblgAwT2hU2H5uLtYKGnT7s5/pub> -
>> indeed you'll even see the section i put in there "Linked-Data,
>> Ontologies and Verifiable Claims"
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPghC4ra6QLhaHhW8QvPJRMKGEXT7KaZtG_7s5-UQrw/edit#heading=h.19e53f97toth>
>>
>>
>> anyhow.  I just...  dunno.  Will get back to you.  Diversity is
>> important...
>>
>> Tim.
>>
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 12:05 Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll go through and do a proper review and respond more effectively;
>>> noting,
>>>
>>> 1. The call schedule is currently for the early hours of my morning.  I
>>> believe there were studies (can't find the link) that showed it doesn't
>>> matter where people are in the world, scheduling global activities for
>>> participation at 2am in the morning generally doesn't work for people.   I
>>> guess, that's why the time of the call is not at that hour for you.   I
>>> believe there were two issues about 2am calls, a. attendance and b. people
>>> are grumpy / not at their best ;)
>>>
>>> I've been trying to do more advocacy and related work here locally; and
>>> as such, had to make choices.  (believing also, the work was in trusted
>>> hands ;) ).
>>>
>>> 2. The older materials weren't archived or available via some form of
>>> version control; it was just all updated.   So, here am i looking for the
>>> older references and the URIs, far from cool, said a very different story.
>>>
>>> 3. Someone else asked about commenting on the RWOT Spec and the
>>> suggestion was that it would be better if only those who attended the RWoT
>>> event comment.  :(
>>>
>>> 4. I then did a review, to see whether my other core assumptions about
>>> the work on VCs (ie: verifiable claim documents) was proceeding as
>>> expected; and saw a bunch of stuff that well..
>>>
>>> all very unexpected.
>>>
>>> 'identity' is too often over simplified and certainly also the subject
>>> of actors seeking to usurp for commercial gains. to do otherwise is so
>>> very, very complicated.  interestingly these issues do not appear to
>>> negatively effect the 'identity' of legal persons ("persona ficta")
>>> anywhere near the prevalence of problems for natural persons.
>>>
>>> 5. HTTP-SIGNATURES in relation to RDF documents was / is a beautifully
>>> simple solution to a variety of problems. It provided something a WACd
>>> WebID otherwise could not do.  Whilst there are still an array of issues
>>> about how to ensure the integrity of that document (and its secured
>>> references), the previous charter explicitly stated "identity credentials"
>>> and "http signatures"; both are lost in the new version.
>>>
>>> I also see the works in OASIS (where some of it started from memory) and
>>> some other dynamics which whilst i'm fully supportive of people doing good
>>> things however they seek to;  felt it wasn't necessarily where i was going
>>> - and the things i most cared about, seemed..
>>>
>>> well.  as a consequence of my flagging concerns, some changes have
>>> already happened.  so i guess, some of my points must to some-degree have
>>> been taken into consideration.
>>>
>>> i'll have another, better look into it.   I've been busy on related
>>> works with some assumptions in-place, that i'll check are are ok.
>>>
>>> As noted; its my view that we need to ensure diversity, which is a very
>>> important attribute of identity, depending on the definition used.
>>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 00:02 Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/19/2017 05:23 PM, Kim Hamilton Duffy wrote:
>>>> > * <https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/charter-20140808/>
>>>> >
>>>> > As for the state of the previous work items, they seem to map to
>>>> > more refined work items in progress now (e.g. DIDs) but I'm not
>>>> > familiar with the history, so I'll let someone else weigh in.
>>>>
>>>> I think the general take away is that the group discussed our new
>>>> charter for multiple months, debated it on the calls, sent minutes out
>>>> related to the debate to the mailing list, commented on the charter via
>>>> Google Docs, discussed it at various RWoT events... net net - lots of
>>>> discussion and debate went into the current charter before it was
>>>> accepted per the CG process.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think you flagged this at WWW2017 also.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The new charter we have now had consensus when it was passed at the time
>>>> (and I suspect still has broad consensus).
>>>>
>>>
>>> That info should be added to the new charter as it was for the last one.
>>> (ideally, without unnecessarily deleting history).
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- manu
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>>> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>> blog: Rebalancing How the Web is Built
>>>> http://manu.sporny.org/2016/rebalancing/
>>>>
>>> --
Kim Hamilton Duffy
CTO & Principal Architect Learning Machine
Co-chair W3C Credentials Community Group
400 Main Street Building E19-732, Cambridge, MA 02139

kim@learningmachine.com | kimhd@mit.edu
425-652-0150 | LearningMachine.com