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Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: Missing on-page description example ( LC-2791)

From: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:32:01 -0500
Message-ID: <CAOavpvexxUhQtcsQv2MVTWK-fHkcRs_mL5A9zC2BiWRBpjTC9A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Cc: "public-comments-wcag20@w3.org" <public-comments-wcag20@w3.org>, Charles McCathieNevile <w3b@chaals.com>, Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>
Thanks you, Andrew!

The first two resources are supporting rationale for the change to the
description.

The markup that you may want to consider using  or adapting for H45 is
the link at:
http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibility_104/examples/pages/graph2.html#desc

The last three links are just other FYI examples.

Best,
Laura


On 9/30/13, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
> Thanks, I fixed that.
>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe Systems
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:15 PM
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Cc: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org; Charles McCathieNevile; Joshue O Connor;
> John Foliot
> Subject: Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: Missing on-page
> description example ( LC-2791)
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> In your copy and paste, the example got thrown off a bit.  It has an extra
> comment. The important part is letting users know where the description
> ends. (The <h3> could be  other markup as appropriate to the context.)
>
> Best Regards,
> Laura
>
> On 9/30/13, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>> I've entered a new comment (LC-2851:
>> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS
>> -20130905/2851) to capture your suggested comments below.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> AWK
>>
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>> Adobe Systems
>>
>> akirkpat@adobe.com
>> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 1:53 PM
>> To: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org; Charles McCathieNevile
>> Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick; Joshue O Connor; John Foliot
>> Subject: Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: Missing on-page
>> description example ( LC-2791)
>>
>> Dear WCAG WG,
>>
>> Thank you very much for agreeing to provide on-page longdesc syntax in
>> order to help people understand how it works and what limitations
>> exist. I agree with the direction you are taking but suggest helping
>> authors to overcome any limitations by incorporating a end-point
>> solution into H45's verbiage and example as well as pointing out the
>> advantages of using a separate resource by changing:
>>
>> QUOTE [1] [2]
>>
>> Authors can provide a description for an image by including text in a
>> separate resource or within the text of the page containing the image.
>> An advantage of providing the description within the same page as the
>> image is that all users can access the description. A limitation of
>> this method, as well as in providing multiple descriptions on a single
>> separate page, is that current implementations supporting longdesc
>> read all text on the page that follows the start of the long
>> description. As a result, an end user may hear the long description
>> and all content on the page following it, without knowing where the
>> long description is intended to end unless authors provide text to help
>> users identify the end-point of the description.
>>
>> [On-page Example]
>>
>> <img longdesc="thispage.html#desc"
>>  alt="Line graph of the number of subscribers"
>>  src="http://www.company/images/graph.png">
>> <div id="desc">
>>  <!-- Full Description of Graph -->
>> <div>
>>
>> UNQUOTE
>>
>> To:
>>
>> QUOTE
>>
>> Authors can provide a description for an image by including text in a
>> separate resource or within the text of the page containing the image.
>> An advantage of using a separate resource for the description is that
>> it is easily reusable for multiple instances of the same image, it
>> does not add on-page visual clutter to the original document, and the
>> description's end-point is self evident. An advantage of providing the
>> description within the same page as the image is that all users can
>> access the description. A limitation of the on-page  method, as well
>> as in providing multiple descriptions on a single separate page, is
>> that current implementations supporting longdesc do not identify the long
>> description's end-point.
>> Authors can solve this by providing a well-formed description, which
>> identifies the where the description ends.
>>
>> [On-page Example]
>>
>> <img longdesc="thispage.html#desc"
>>  alt="Line graph of the number of subscribers"
>>  src="http://www.company/images/graph.png">
>> <div id="desc">
>>  <h3>Long Description: Line graph of the number of subscribers</h3>
>>  <!-- Full Description of Graph -->
>>  <p>Long description ends.</p>
>> </div>
>>
>> UNQUOTE
>>
>> Related Resources:
>>
>> Description Available in a Separate Document Provides Efficiency
>> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/constriants/separate-doc.html
>>
>> Forced Visual Encumbrance Adds Visual Clutter
>> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/constriants/visual-encumbrance
>> .html
>>
>> In addition WCAG WG may want to consider demonstrating to authors how
>> to provide an actual long description by replacing the comment: <!--
>> Full Description of Graph --> with markup.
>>
>> For example:
>> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibili
>> ty_104/examples/pages/graph2.html#desc
>>
>> More longdesc Examples:
>>
>> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibili
>> ty_104/examples/long.html
>>
>> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibili
>> ty_104/104ex1_fixed.html#browsers_stats
>>
>> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibili
>> ty_104/104ex1_fixed.html#painting
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Laura
>>
>> [1]
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/H45.html#H45-desc
>> ription [2]
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/H45.html#H45-ex2
>>
>>
>> On 9/22/13, akirkpat@adobe.com <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Dear  Laura Carlson ,
>>>
>>> The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group has reviewed
>>> the comments you sent [1] on the Last Call Working Draft [2] of the
>>> Techniques for WCAG 2.0 published on 11 Jul 2013. Thank you for
>>> having taken the time to review the document and to send us comments!
>>>
>>> The Working Group's response to your comment is included below.
>>>
>>> Please review it carefully and let us know by email at
>>> public-comments-wcag20@w3.org if you agree with it or not before 2
>>> Oct 2013. In case of disagreement, you are requested to provide a
>>> specific solution for or a path to a consensus with the Working
>>> Group. If such a consensus cannot be achieved, you will be given the
>>> opportunity to raise a formal objection which will then be reviewed
>>> by the Director during the transition of this document to the next
>>> stage in the W3C Recommendation Track.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> For the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group, Michael
>>> Cooper W3C Staff Contact
>>>
>>>  1.
>>> http://www.w3.org/mid/CAOavpvf05d2iRAvPi9i13MmCW_MxXv7C9HkhvBga8H3iSA
>>> t
>>> L-A@mail.gmail.com  2.
>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/
>>>
>>>
>>> =====
>>>
>>> Your comment on H45: Using longdesc:
>>>> 1. Title of the document
>>>>
>>>> H45: Using longdesc
>>>>
>>>> 2. Location within the document
>>>>
>>>> "Examples"
>>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#H45-e
>>> x
>>> amples
>>>>
>>>> 3. Concern
>>>>
>>>> H45 is missing example longdesc syntax for an on-page description.
>>>> If the long text alternative of an image is useful to all users,
>>>> keeping it in plain view in the same document and using longdesc for
>>>> screen reader users to programmatically obtain it is a good option.
>>>> That way everyone can read it.
>>>>
>>>> 4. Suggested change
>>>>
>>>> Add something like:
>>>>
>>>> If the long text alternative of an image is useful to all users,
>>>> keeping it in plain view in the same document and using longdesc for
>>>> screen reader users to programmatically obtain it is a good option.
>>>> That way everyone can read it. By using a fragment identifier,
>>>> longdesc may be used to link to a description within the same
>>>> document. The syntax is:
>>>>
>>>> <img
>>>>  longdesc="#desc"
>>>>  alt="Line graph of the number of subscribers"
>>>>  src="http://www.company/images/graph.png">
>>>> <div id="desc">
>>>>  <!-- Full Description of Graph -->
>>>> <div>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Additional rationale for the comment
>>>>
>>>> This technique is specified in the HTML5 Image Description Extension
>>>> (longdesc).
>>>>
>>>> Use Case:
>>>> "Linking to a description included within a page If an image already
>>>> has a description included within a page, making the linkage
>>>> explicit can provide further clarity for a user who is not able to
>>>> interpret the default layout. For example this happens when users
>>>> force a re-layout of the page elements because they have magnified
>>>> the content, or because they do not see the default visual
>>>> relationship between the element and its description.
>>>> This practice also enables description to be provided for all users.
>>>> By keeping the association clear the content maintainer can more
>>>> easily check that the description and link are actually correct."
>>>>
>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/default/longdesc1/longd
>>> e
>>> sc.htm#use-cases
>>>>
>>>> Example:
>>>>
>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/default/longdesc1/longd
>>> e
>>> sc.html#intro
>>>>
>>>> Please add an explanation and example to Techniques for WCAG 2.0
>>>> document H45.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>> Working Group Resolution (LC-2791):
>>> Thank you for your comment.
>>>
>>> The WG agrees that an example detailing this method may help people
>>> understand how this works and what limitations exist. We will add an
>>> additional paragraph to the description and example 2 will be added
>>> as
>>> follows:
>>> [DONE] description new second paragraph:
>>> Authors can provide a description for an image by including text in a
>>> separate resource or within the text of the page containing the image.
>>> An advantage of providing the description within the same page as the
>>> image is that all users can access the description.  A limitation of
>>> this method, as well as in providing multiple descriptions on a
>>> single separate page, is that current implementations supporting
>>> longdesc read all text on the page that follows the start of the long
>>> description. As a result, an end user may hear the long description
>>> and all content on the page following it, without knowing where the
>>> long description is intended to end unless authors provide text to
>>> help users identify the end-point of the description.
>>>
>>> [DONE] Example 1: Using longdesc to refer to a long description
>>> contained on a separate resource. (title of example changed to
>>> clarify)
>>>
>>> [DONE] Example 2: Using longdesc to refer to a long description
>>> within the same page.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Laura L. Carlson
>>
>
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>


-- 
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Monday, 30 September 2013 19:32:43 UTC

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