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RE: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: Missing on-page description example ( LC-2791)

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:17:09 -0700
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
CC: "public-comments-wcag20@w3.org" <public-comments-wcag20@w3.org>, Charles McCathieNevile <w3b@chaals.com>, Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>
Message-ID: <EE43A638A0C5E34E80AF78EFE940FC2C10C200B383@nambx09.corp.adobe.com>
Thanks, I fixed that.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe Systems 

akirkpat@adobe.com
http://twitter.com/awkawk

http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility



-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:15 PM
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Cc: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org; Charles McCathieNevile; Joshue O Connor; John Foliot
Subject: Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: Missing on-page description example ( LC-2791)

Hi Andrew,

Thank you very much.

In your copy and paste, the example got thrown off a bit.  It has an extra comment. The important part is letting users know where the description ends. (The <h3> could be  other markup as appropriate to the context.)

Best Regards,
Laura

On 9/30/13, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
> I've entered a new comment (LC-2851:
> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS

> -20130905/2851) to capture your suggested comments below.
>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe Systems
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
> http://twitter.com/awkawk

> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 1:53 PM
> To: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org; Charles McCathieNevile
> Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick; Joshue O Connor; John Foliot
> Subject: Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: Missing on-page 
> description example ( LC-2791)
>
> Dear WCAG WG,
>
> Thank you very much for agreeing to provide on-page longdesc syntax in 
> order to help people understand how it works and what limitations 
> exist. I agree with the direction you are taking but suggest helping 
> authors to overcome any limitations by incorporating a end-point 
> solution into H45's verbiage and example as well as pointing out the 
> advantages of using a separate resource by changing:
>
> QUOTE [1] [2]
>
> Authors can provide a description for an image by including text in a 
> separate resource or within the text of the page containing the image.
> An advantage of providing the description within the same page as the 
> image is that all users can access the description. A limitation of 
> this method, as well as in providing multiple descriptions on a single 
> separate page, is that current implementations supporting longdesc 
> read all text on the page that follows the start of the long 
> description. As a result, an end user may hear the long description 
> and all content on the page following it, without knowing where the 
> long description is intended to end unless authors provide text to help users identify the end-point of the description.
>
> [On-page Example]
>
> <img longdesc="thispage.html#desc"
>  alt="Line graph of the number of subscribers"
>  src="http://www.company/images/graph.png">
> <div id="desc">
>  <!-- Full Description of Graph -->
> <div>
>
> UNQUOTE
>
> To:
>
> QUOTE
>
> Authors can provide a description for an image by including text in a 
> separate resource or within the text of the page containing the image.
> An advantage of using a separate resource for the description is that 
> it is easily reusable for multiple instances of the same image, it 
> does not add on-page visual clutter to the original document, and the 
> description's end-point is self evident. An advantage of providing the 
> description within the same page as the image is that all users can 
> access the description. A limitation of the on-page  method, as well 
> as in providing multiple descriptions on a single separate page, is 
> that current implementations supporting longdesc do not identify the long description's end-point.
> Authors can solve this by providing a well-formed description, which 
> identifies the where the description ends.
>
> [On-page Example]
>
> <img longdesc="thispage.html#desc"
>  alt="Line graph of the number of subscribers"
>  src="http://www.company/images/graph.png">
> <div id="desc">
>  <h3>Long Description: Line graph of the number of subscribers</h3>
>  <!-- Full Description of Graph -->
>  <p>Long description ends.</p>
> </div>
>
> UNQUOTE
>
> Related Resources:
>
> Description Available in a Separate Document Provides Efficiency 
> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/constriants/separate-doc.html

>
> Forced Visual Encumbrance Adds Visual Clutter 
> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/constriants/visual-encumbrance

> .html
>
> In addition WCAG WG may want to consider demonstrating to authors how 
> to provide an actual long description by replacing the comment: <!-- 
> Full Description of Graph --> with markup.
>
> For example:
> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibili

> ty_104/examples/pages/graph2.html#desc
>
> More longdesc Examples:
>
> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibili

> ty_104/examples/long.html
>
> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibili

> ty_104/104ex1_fixed.html#browsers_stats
>
> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibili

> ty_104/104ex1_fixed.html#painting
>
> Thank you.
>
> Best Regards,
> Laura
>
> [1]
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/H45.html#H45-desc

> ription [2] 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/H45.html#H45-ex2

>
>
> On 9/22/13, akirkpat@adobe.com <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>>  Dear  Laura Carlson ,
>>
>> The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group has reviewed 
>> the comments you sent [1] on the Last Call Working Draft [2] of the 
>> Techniques for WCAG 2.0 published on 11 Jul 2013. Thank you for 
>> having taken the time to review the document and to send us comments!
>>
>> The Working Group's response to your comment is included below.
>>
>> Please review it carefully and let us know by email at 
>> public-comments-wcag20@w3.org if you agree with it or not before 2 
>> Oct 2013. In case of disagreement, you are requested to provide a 
>> specific solution for or a path to a consensus with the Working 
>> Group. If such a consensus cannot be achieved, you will be given the 
>> opportunity to raise a formal objection which will then be reviewed 
>> by the Director during the transition of this document to the next 
>> stage in the W3C Recommendation Track.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> For the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group, Michael 
>> Cooper W3C Staff Contact
>>
>>  1.
>> http://www.w3.org/mid/CAOavpvf05d2iRAvPi9i13MmCW_MxXv7C9HkhvBga8H3iSA

>> t
>> L-A@mail.gmail.com  2.
>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/

>>
>>
>> =====
>>
>> Your comment on H45: Using longdesc:
>>> 1. Title of the document
>>>
>>> H45: Using longdesc
>>>
>>> 2. Location within the document
>>>
>>> "Examples"
>>>
>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#H45-e

>> x
>> amples
>>>
>>> 3. Concern
>>>
>>> H45 is missing example longdesc syntax for an on-page description. 
>>> If the long text alternative of an image is useful to all users, 
>>> keeping it in plain view in the same document and using longdesc for 
>>> screen reader users to programmatically obtain it is a good option. 
>>> That way everyone can read it.
>>>
>>> 4. Suggested change
>>>
>>> Add something like:
>>>
>>> If the long text alternative of an image is useful to all users, 
>>> keeping it in plain view in the same document and using longdesc for 
>>> screen reader users to programmatically obtain it is a good option.
>>> That way everyone can read it. By using a fragment identifier, 
>>> longdesc may be used to link to a description within the same 
>>> document. The syntax is:
>>>
>>> <img
>>>  longdesc="#desc"
>>>  alt="Line graph of the number of subscribers"
>>>  src="http://www.company/images/graph.png">
>>> <div id="desc">
>>>  <!-- Full Description of Graph -->
>>> <div>
>>>
>>> 4. Additional rationale for the comment
>>>
>>> This technique is specified in the HTML5 Image Description Extension 
>>> (longdesc).
>>>
>>> Use Case:
>>> "Linking to a description included within a page If an image already 
>>> has a description included within a page, making the linkage 
>>> explicit can provide further clarity for a user who is not able to 
>>> interpret the default layout. For example this happens when users 
>>> force a re-layout of the page elements because they have magnified 
>>> the content, or because they do not see the default visual 
>>> relationship between the element and its description.
>>> This practice also enables description to be provided for all users.
>>> By keeping the association clear the content maintainer can more 
>>> easily check that the description and link are actually correct."
>>>
>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/default/longdesc1/longd

>> e
>> sc.htm#use-cases
>>>
>>> Example:
>>>
>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/default/longdesc1/longd

>> e
>> sc.html#intro
>>>
>>> Please add an explanation and example to Techniques for WCAG 2.0 
>>> document H45.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>> Working Group Resolution (LC-2791):
>> Thank you for your comment.
>>
>> The WG agrees that an example detailing this method may help people 
>> understand how this works and what limitations exist. We will add an 
>> additional paragraph to the description and example 2 will be added 
>> as
>> follows:
>> [DONE] description new second paragraph:
>> Authors can provide a description for an image by including text in a 
>> separate resource or within the text of the page containing the image.
>> An advantage of providing the description within the same page as the 
>> image is that all users can access the description.  A limitation of 
>> this method, as well as in providing multiple descriptions on a 
>> single separate page, is that current implementations supporting 
>> longdesc read all text on the page that follows the start of the long 
>> description. As a result, an end user may hear the long description 
>> and all content on the page following it, without knowing where the 
>> long description is intended to end unless authors provide text to 
>> help users identify the end-point of the description.
>>
>> [DONE] Example 1: Using longdesc to refer to a long description 
>> contained on a separate resource. (title of example changed to
>> clarify)
>>
>> [DONE] Example 2: Using longdesc to refer to a long description 
>> within the same page.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>


--
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Monday, 30 September 2013 19:20:20 UTC

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