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Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: User agent support ( LC-2792)

From: Chaals Nevile <w3b@chaals.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 01:48:36 +0200
To: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" <akirkpat@adobe.com>, "Laura Carlson" <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Cc: "public-comments-wcag20@w3.org" <public-comments-wcag20@w3.org>, "Dominic Mazzoni" <dmazzoni@chromium.org>, "Joshue O Connor" <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, "John Foliot" <john@foliot.ca>
Message-ID: <op.w4au3aojvuuelj@chaals.local>
Hi,

On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 22:21:15 +0200, Laura Carlson  
<laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> I understand.
>
> A list of of longdesc tools is at:
> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibility_104/longdesc_tools.html

I think it is also important to understand what the expected future of  
that document is - when will it stop being maintained...

Another resource to point to is the longdesc test suite results:  
https://rawgithub.com/chaals/longdesc-tests/master/test-results.html

This is unlikely to be maintained beyond 2014, and is by no means  
exhaustive. But as an informative resource it might be useful.

cheers

Chaals

> Thank you.
>
> Best Regards,
> Laura
>
> On 10/1/13, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>> Laura,
>> The technique is not attempting to provide a comprehensive listing of  
>> tools
>> that support longdesc or any other feature, and as a group we decided  
>> to not
>> include the very comprehensive listing of tools you provided because  
>> doing
>> that not only obligates the group to maintaining that listing but it
>> obscures the technique itself.
>>
>> We are happy to link to a resource which provides this information -  
>> tell us
>> which URI to point to and I'll add that to the comment for the group to
>> review.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> AWK
>>
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>> Adobe Systems
>>
>> akirkpat@adobe.com
>> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:13 AM
>> To: Chaals Nevile; Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Cc: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org; Dominic Mazzoni; Joshue O Connor;  
>> John
>> Foliot
>> Subject: Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: User agent support (
>> LC-2792)
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thank you, Chaals. Yes. I agree about iCab. I had it listed in my  
>> original
>> comment. It certainly does deserve to be listed in H45 along with the
>> browsers that support longdesc. Andrew can it please be added?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Laura
>>
>> On 9/30/13, Chaals Nevile <w3b@chaals.com> wrote:
>>> Yeah, this looks reasonable enough for me.
>>>
>>> Because the world changes, I'm not as fussy about things that are
>>> clearly "at the moment..." as I am about statements about the big long
>>> future...
>>> otherwise I'd be looking for something that points out that it doesn't
>>> only work in screenreaders.
>>>
>>> For example, I am still impressed by the work that goes into making
>>> iCab exemplary for its users, and in particular the fact that it has
>>> supported longdesc approximately forever. (Despite working for two
>>> browser makers since I first took up iCab I still have it, and use it
>>> regularly).
>>>
>>> Thanks Laura for following this up.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:51:37 +0200, Laura Carlson
>>> <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear WCAG WG,
>>>>
>>>> + Dominic Mazzoni
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much for revising "H45 Using longdesc"'s UA section.
>>>> To the best of my knowledge your new proposed text [1] for H45 is
>>>> accurate. Chaals, do you concur?
>>>>
>>>> One screen reader that is missing is ChromeVox. It has longdesc  
>>>> support.
>>>>
>>>> Dominic, in July you had uploaded an initial draft Chrome
>>>> implementation for longdesc. [1] What is the ETA of longdesc landing
>>>> in Chrome? Perhaps the word "planned" can be removed from the phrase
>>>> "Chrome (planned)" in WCAG 2.0 Technique H45: Using longdesc.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>> [1] "User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
>>>> improving. Screen readers such as JAWS, NVDA, and Window-Eyes support
>>>> longdesc, but Voiceover 4.0, Orca 2.32.0, and screen magnifier
>>>> Zoomtext 10.0 do not yet support the longdesc attribute. Browsers
>>>> including Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, and Chrome (planned) all
>>>> support longdesc."
>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/H45.html#ua2.19.
>>>> 1 [2] http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=224285#c26
>>>>
>>>> On 9/22/13, akirkpat@adobe.com <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>>>>>  Dear Laura Carlson ,
>>>>>
>>>>> The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group has reviewed
>>>>> the comments you sent [1] on the Last Call Working Draft [2] of the
>>>>> Techniques for WCAG 2.0 published on 11 Jul 2013. Thank you for
>>>>> having taken the time to review the document and to send us
>>>>> comments!
>>>>>
>>>>> The Working Group's response to your comment is included below.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please review it carefully and let us know by email at
>>>>> public-comments-wcag20@w3.org if you agree with it or not before 2
>>>>> Oct 2013. In case of disagreement, you are requested to provide a
>>>>> specific solution for or a path to a consensus with the Working
>>>>> Group. If such a consensus cannot be achieved, you will be given the
>>>>> opportunity to raise a formal objection which will then be reviewed
>>>>> by the Director during the transition of this document to the next
>>>>> stage in the W3C Recommendation Track.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> For the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group, Michael
>>>>> Cooper W3C Staff Contact
>>>>>
>>>>>  1.
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/mid/CAOavpveFp6GsrEBFik9je+6b=KYpd0mBk0n-Hngz=Dg1P
>>>>> yo2mA@mail.gmail.com  2.
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =====
>>>>>
>>>>> Your comment on H45: Using longdesc:
>>>>>> 1. Title of the document
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Location within the document
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "User Agent and Assistive Technology Support Notes"
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#ua2
>>>>>> .19.1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Concern
>>>>>>
>>>>>> User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
>>>>>> improving. The Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document should say that, as
>>>>>> it does for ARIA. H45 should provide a full listing of support.
>>>>>> There is now new and improved validator support and more widespread
>>>>>> implementation (e.g. in Chrome Vox, NVDA, Firefox). This will lead
>>>>>> authors to make fewer errors and users to experience longdesc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Suggested change
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please state that:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
>>>>>> improving. A collection of tools that provide support for longdesc
>>>>>> exists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And provide a full listing of support:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BROWSERS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Opera, Firefox, Chromium, and Internet Explorer all support
>>>>>> longdesc DOM reflection.
>>>>>> http://people.opera.com/philipj/2011/01/23/longdesc/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * As of Mozilla 25 Firefox has native support via the image context
>>>>>> menu.
>>>>>> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/
>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877453
>>>>>> Firefox has accessibility API support.
>>>>>>
>>>>> https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/html/n
>>>>> sHTMLImageAccessible.cpp
>>>>>> Support for prior versions is supplied via:
>>>>>>   * Longdesc Firefox Extension by Patrick H. Lauke, adds a "View
>>>>>> Image Longdesc" option to the image context menu that activates the
>>>>>> link to the long description.
>>>>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/longdesc/
>>>>>>   * Longdesk 0.2 FireFox Extension by Anthony Ricaud, adds a link
>>>>>> to the longdesc under images that provides one.
>>>>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/longdesk/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * It is anticipated that Chrome will be providing native support.
>>>>>> "Now that the spec has been published I think we can add it." -
>>>>>> Dominic Mazzoni
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-accessibility
>>>>> /browse_thread/thread/6542ed13863a8f2c#
>>>>>> Support for prior versions of Chrome is supplied via Longdesc
>>>>>> plugin by Chris Kennish, which "highlights and provides right-click
>>>>>> access to image long descriptions, where provided."
>>>>>>
>>>>> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/longdesc/haohljalgapbacpkf
>>>>> efnmhiadanhejmb
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * iCab has native support of longdesc via a context-menu.
>>>>>> http://www.icab.de/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Opera 1010b1 to Blink has native support of longdesc. Exposition
>>>>>> of the longdesc is exposed by a right click on the image for which
>>>>>> the longdesc has been defined.
>>>>>> http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/mac/1010b1/#ui
>>>>>> Support for prior versions of Opera is supplied via:
>>>>>>   * TellMeMore Opera extension, which respects a web page's visual
>>>>>> design yet provides critical functionality. It will "Find things
>>>>>> that have more description available, and show them on demand.
>>>>>> Where images (or something else) have a longdesc attribute, the
>>>>>> extension notifies by changing its icon and title, and enables the
>>>>>> user to see a list of the descriptions available, in its popup.
>>>>>> When the user selects an item in the popup, a new window opens with  
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> description in it."
>>>>>> https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/tellmemore/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Internet Explorer (IE)
>>>>>>   * When used together with assistive technology such as Jaws, IE
>>>>>> makes longdesc accessible to the AT user.
>>>>>>   * Configuring Internet Explorer to Handle Longdesc - Adds a
>>>>>> context menu entry to extract the longdesc attribute value and have
>>>>>> the page navigate to its content for sighted users. by Sean Hayes.
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/archive/2011/03/25/configuring
>>>>> -internet-explorer-to-handle-longdesc.aspx
>>>>>>   * Longdesc Linker for Internet Explorer 6 - Browser Helper Object
>>>>>> which adds a "Long Description" item to the context menu that IE
>>>>>> uses for images.
>>>>>> http://www.hackcraft.net/longdesclink/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Netscape 7.0 (rv:1.0.1 Gecko/20020823) supports the longdesc
>>>>>> attribute via the context menu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Home Page Reader has native support of longdesc and is still used
>>>>>> in Japan for longdesc, even though it stopped being maintained years
>>>>>> ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Long Description Favelet "announces the number of images with
>>>>>> longdesc attributes and provides links to the long description file
>>>>>> in each case." by James W. Thatcher. It works ubiquitously in
>>>>>> Chrome, FireFox, Internet Explorer, Safari, Opera, and iCab.
>>>>>> http://jimthatcher.com/favelets/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The following assistive technology informs users that an image has
>>>>>> a long description, at which point the user has the option of
>>>>>> reading the description or skipping it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Chromevox began supporting longdesc in version 1.26. It is
>>>>>> announced and can be activated with Cvox + C > D
>>>>>> http://www.chromevox.com/release_notes.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * NVDA will now announce the existence of the long description, and
>>>>>> a user can press NVDA+d to open it.
>>>>>> http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/809#comment:5
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * JAWS Version 4.01 and up supports longdesc.
>>>>>> http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_products/software_jaws401newfea
>>>>>> .asp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Adaptive Multimedia Information System (AMIS)
>>>>>> http://www.daisy.org/projects/amis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * AnyDaisy FF Extension
>>>>>> https://launchpad.net/daisyextension
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * LookOUT in combination with WebbIE.
>>>>>> http://www.screenreader.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Sense Reader Professional Edition v1.1.0.6 (KoreChromeVoxan)
>>>>>> http://www.haeppa.kr/?page=10
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * SuperNova/Hal
>>>>>> http://www.yourdolphin.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Thunder in combination with WebbIE.
>>>>>> http://www.screenreader.co.uk/product.php?shopprodid=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Window-Eyes
>>>>>> http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Manual/HTML/advanced.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Home Page Reader has native support of longdesc and is still used
>>>>>> in Japan for longdesc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AUTHORING TOOLS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The following authoring tools support the longdesc attribute.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * AChecker
>>>>>> * AD Gallery
>>>>>> * Alt Text Checker
>>>>>> * Amaya
>>>>>> * A-Prompt
>>>>>> * ASP.NET
>>>>>> * BlueGriffon
>>>>>> * CKEditor
>>>>>> * Connexions Markup Language (CNXML)
>>>>>> * Cute Editor
>>>>>> * Docbook Docbook XSL Documentation (html.longdesc)
>>>>>> * Docbook XSL Documentation (html.longdesc.link)
>>>>>> * Dreamweaver, Creative Suite
>>>>>> * Drupal 7 - Drupal 7 Release Date, January 5, 2011.
>>>>>> * easyALBUM
>>>>>> * elRTE
>>>>>> * Expression Studio
>>>>>> * Expression Web
>>>>>> * gp|Easy CMS
>>>>>> * HERA
>>>>>> * iGraph-Lite
>>>>>> * Juicy Studio's Image Analyser
>>>>>> * jQuery Accessible Longdesc Plugin
>>>>>> * LongDesc Page Generator
>>>>>> * ObjectDescription
>>>>>> * Oxygen XML Editor
>>>>>> * RadEditor for ASP.NET AJAX
>>>>>> * Save As DAISY/MSWord Add-In
>>>>>> * simplepie
>>>>>> * SiteVision.se (CMS)
>>>>>> * TinyMCE
>>>>>> * WAVE
>>>>>> * Weblight
>>>>>> * WordPress longdesc Plugin Automatic longdesc to be added to
>>>>>> WordPress
>>>>>> * Visual Studio and ASP.NET
>>>>>> * XStandard
>>>>>> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/ld-ua.html#atools
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Additional rationale for the comment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document should treat ARIA and longdesc
>>>>>> equitably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ARIA Techniques for WCAG 2.0 is cast in a positive light: "User
>>>>>> Agent support for WAI-ARIA varies, but overall support for WAI-ARIA
>>>>>> is improving."
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/#wai-aria_ua_
>>>>> support
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In contrast H45: Using longdesc is cast in a negative light:
>>>>>> "Voiceover 4.0, NVDA 2012, Orca 2.32.0, and Zoomtext 10.0 (and
>>>>>> their earlier versions) do not support the longdesc attribute.
>>>>>> Versions of JAWS earlier than JAWS 4.01 and versions of WindowEyes
>>>>>> earlier than WindowEyes 4.5 do not support this attribute, but later
>>>>>> versions do."
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html
>>>>>> There is no mention of longdesc improving i.e., NVDA, Chromevox,
>>>>>> Firefox, the many extensions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please correct this situation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Working Group Resolution (LC-2792):
>>>>> Thanks for your comment and suggested text. This information is
>>>>> useful,
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>> will be incorporated into the 'User Agent and Assistive Technology
>>>>> Support Notes' found on
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#ua2.
>>>>> 19.1
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>> read:
>>>>>
>>>>> [DONE] User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support
>>>>> is improving. Screen readers such as JAWS, NVDA, and Window-Eyes
>>>>> support longdesc, but Voiceover 4.0, Orca 2.32.0, and screen
>>>>> magnifier Zoomtext
>>>>> 10.0 do not yet support the longdesc attribute. Browsers including
>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, and Chrome (planned) all support
>>>>> longdesc.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chaals - standards declaimer
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Laura L. Carlson
>>
>
>


-- 
Chaals - standards declaimer
Received on Tuesday, 1 October 2013 23:49:04 UTC

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