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Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: User agent support ( LC-2792)

From: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 06:47:43 -0500
Message-ID: <CAOavpvcq4QMN2OHPcnF+DqY_UFOw6x7Sd6hxQSdQf0XdvhkTzw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Chaals Nevile <w3b@chaals.com>
Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, "public-comments-wcag20@w3.org" <public-comments-wcag20@w3.org>, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@chromium.org>, Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>
Hi Chaals,

>> A list of of longdesc tools is at:
>> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibility_104/longdesc_tools.html
>
> I think it is also important to understand what the expected future of
> that document is - when will it stop being maintained...

I use  the longdesc tools page in the classes that I teach. At this
point I expect that it will be maintained for around 5-6 years.
FYI... Web Design Reference site [1] [2] [3], which I created and
curate has been continually maintained since 1995. It has over 2,500
links. So that one longdesc tools page isn't a big burden in the
scheme of things.

> Another resource to point to is the longdesc test suite results:
> https://rawgithub.com/chaals/longdesc-tests/master/test-results.html
>
> This is unlikely to be maintained beyond 2014, and is by no means
> exhaustive. But as an informative resource it might be useful.

Wow. That is a great resource. You have been busy :-)

I am wondering if the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working
Group  documents user agent support or if the  Authoring Tool
Accessibility Guidelines Working Group documents authoring tool
support for attributes and elements? Would UAWG and AUWG be better
places to maintain and house such documentation?

Best Regards,
Laura

[1] http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/webdesign/
[2] http://www.webstandardsgroup.org/features/laura-carlson.htm#reference
[3] http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/webdesign/about/

On 10/1/13, Chaals Nevile <w3b@chaals.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 22:21:15 +0200, Laura Carlson
> <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> I understand.
>>
>> A list of of longdesc tools is at:
>> http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibility_104/longdesc_tools.html
>
> I think it is also important to understand what the expected future of
> that document is - when will it stop being maintained...
>
> Another resource to point to is the longdesc test suite results:
> https://rawgithub.com/chaals/longdesc-tests/master/test-results.html
>
> This is unlikely to be maintained beyond 2014, and is by no means
> exhaustive. But as an informative resource it might be useful.
>
> cheers
>
> Chaals
>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Laura
>>
>> On 10/1/13, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>>> Laura,
>>> The technique is not attempting to provide a comprehensive listing of
>>> tools
>>> that support longdesc or any other feature, and as a group we decided
>>> to not
>>> include the very comprehensive listing of tools you provided because
>>> doing
>>> that not only obligates the group to maintaining that listing but it
>>> obscures the technique itself.
>>>
>>> We are happy to link to a resource which provides this information -
>>> tell us
>>> which URI to point to and I'll add that to the comment for the group to
>>> review.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> AWK
>>>
>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>>> Adobe Systems
>>>
>>> akirkpat@adobe.com
>>> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:13 AM
>>> To: Chaals Nevile; Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> Cc: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org; Dominic Mazzoni; Joshue O Connor;
>>> John
>>> Foliot
>>> Subject: Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: User agent support (
>>> LC-2792)
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thank you, Chaals. Yes. I agree about iCab. I had it listed in my
>>> original
>>> comment. It certainly does deserve to be listed in H45 along with the
>>> browsers that support longdesc. Andrew can it please be added?
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Laura
>>>
>>> On 9/30/13, Chaals Nevile <w3b@chaals.com> wrote:
>>>> Yeah, this looks reasonable enough for me.
>>>>
>>>> Because the world changes, I'm not as fussy about things that are
>>>> clearly "at the moment..." as I am about statements about the big long
>>>> future...
>>>> otherwise I'd be looking for something that points out that it doesn't
>>>> only work in screenreaders.
>>>>
>>>> For example, I am still impressed by the work that goes into making
>>>> iCab exemplary for its users, and in particular the fact that it has
>>>> supported longdesc approximately forever. (Despite working for two
>>>> browser makers since I first took up iCab I still have it, and use it
>>>> regularly).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Laura for following this up.
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:51:37 +0200, Laura Carlson
>>>> <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear WCAG WG,
>>>>>
>>>>> + Dominic Mazzoni
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you very much for revising "H45 Using longdesc"'s UA section.
>>>>> To the best of my knowledge your new proposed text [1] for H45 is
>>>>> accurate. Chaals, do you concur?
>>>>>
>>>>> One screen reader that is missing is ChromeVox. It has longdesc
>>>>> support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dominic, in July you had uploaded an initial draft Chrome
>>>>> implementation for longdesc. [1] What is the ETA of longdesc landing
>>>>> in Chrome? Perhaps the word "planned" can be removed from the phrase
>>>>> "Chrome (planned)" in WCAG 2.0 Technique H45: Using longdesc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Laura
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] "User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
>>>>> improving. Screen readers such as JAWS, NVDA, and Window-Eyes support
>>>>> longdesc, but Voiceover 4.0, Orca 2.32.0, and screen magnifier
>>>>> Zoomtext 10.0 do not yet support the longdesc attribute. Browsers
>>>>> including Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, and Chrome (planned) all
>>>>> support longdesc."
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/H45.html#ua2.19.
>>>>> 1 [2] http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=224285#c26
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/22/13, akirkpat@adobe.com <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>>>>>>  Dear Laura Carlson ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group has reviewed
>>>>>> the comments you sent [1] on the Last Call Working Draft [2] of the
>>>>>> Techniques for WCAG 2.0 published on 11 Jul 2013. Thank you for
>>>>>> having taken the time to review the document and to send us
>>>>>> comments!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Working Group's response to your comment is included below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please review it carefully and let us know by email at
>>>>>> public-comments-wcag20@w3.org if you agree with it or not before 2
>>>>>> Oct 2013. In case of disagreement, you are requested to provide a
>>>>>> specific solution for or a path to a consensus with the Working
>>>>>> Group. If such a consensus cannot be achieved, you will be given the
>>>>>> opportunity to raise a formal objection which will then be reviewed
>>>>>> by the Director during the transition of this document to the next
>>>>>> stage in the W3C Recommendation Track.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group, Michael
>>>>>> Cooper W3C Staff Contact
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  1.
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/mid/CAOavpveFp6GsrEBFik9je+6b=KYpd0mBk0n-Hngz=Dg1P
>>>>>> yo2mA@mail.gmail.com  2.
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =====
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your comment on H45: Using longdesc:
>>>>>>> 1. Title of the document
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Location within the document
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "User Agent and Assistive Technology Support Notes"
>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#ua2
>>>>>>> .19.1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. Concern
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
>>>>>>> improving. The Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document should say that, as
>>>>>>> it does for ARIA. H45 should provide a full listing of support.
>>>>>>> There is now new and improved validator support and more widespread
>>>>>>> implementation (e.g. in Chrome Vox, NVDA, Firefox). This will lead
>>>>>>> authors to make fewer errors and users to experience longdesc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. Suggested change
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please state that:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
>>>>>>> improving. A collection of tools that provide support for longdesc
>>>>>>> exists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And provide a full listing of support:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BROWSERS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Opera, Firefox, Chromium, and Internet Explorer all support
>>>>>>> longdesc DOM reflection.
>>>>>>> http://people.opera.com/philipj/2011/01/23/longdesc/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * As of Mozilla 25 Firefox has native support via the image context
>>>>>>> menu.
>>>>>>> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/
>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877453
>>>>>>> Firefox has accessibility API support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/html/n
>>>>>> sHTMLImageAccessible.cpp
>>>>>>> Support for prior versions is supplied via:
>>>>>>>   * Longdesc Firefox Extension by Patrick H. Lauke, adds a "View
>>>>>>> Image Longdesc" option to the image context menu that activates the
>>>>>>> link to the long description.
>>>>>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/longdesc/
>>>>>>>   * Longdesk 0.2 FireFox Extension by Anthony Ricaud, adds a link
>>>>>>> to the longdesc under images that provides one.
>>>>>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/longdesk/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * It is anticipated that Chrome will be providing native support.
>>>>>>> "Now that the spec has been published I think we can add it." -
>>>>>>> Dominic Mazzoni
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-accessibility
>>>>>> /browse_thread/thread/6542ed13863a8f2c#
>>>>>>> Support for prior versions of Chrome is supplied via Longdesc
>>>>>>> plugin by Chris Kennish, which "highlights and provides right-click
>>>>>>> access to image long descriptions, where provided."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/longdesc/haohljalgapbacpkf
>>>>>> efnmhiadanhejmb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * iCab has native support of longdesc via a context-menu.
>>>>>>> http://www.icab.de/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Opera 1010b1 to Blink has native support of longdesc. Exposition
>>>>>>> of the longdesc is exposed by a right click on the image for which
>>>>>>> the longdesc has been defined.
>>>>>>> http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/mac/1010b1/#ui
>>>>>>> Support for prior versions of Opera is supplied via:
>>>>>>>   * TellMeMore Opera extension, which respects a web page's visual
>>>>>>> design yet provides critical functionality. It will "Find things
>>>>>>> that have more description available, and show them on demand.
>>>>>>> Where images (or something else) have a longdesc attribute, the
>>>>>>> extension notifies by changing its icon and title, and enables the
>>>>>>> user to see a list of the descriptions available, in its popup.
>>>>>>> When the user selects an item in the popup, a new window opens with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> description in it."
>>>>>>> https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/tellmemore/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Internet Explorer (IE)
>>>>>>>   * When used together with assistive technology such as Jaws, IE
>>>>>>> makes longdesc accessible to the AT user.
>>>>>>>   * Configuring Internet Explorer to Handle Longdesc - Adds a
>>>>>>> context menu entry to extract the longdesc attribute value and have
>>>>>>> the page navigate to its content for sighted users. by Sean Hayes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/archive/2011/03/25/configuring
>>>>>> -internet-explorer-to-handle-longdesc.aspx
>>>>>>>   * Longdesc Linker for Internet Explorer 6 - Browser Helper Object
>>>>>>> which adds a "Long Description" item to the context menu that IE
>>>>>>> uses for images.
>>>>>>> http://www.hackcraft.net/longdesclink/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Netscape 7.0 (rv:1.0.1 Gecko/20020823) supports the longdesc
>>>>>>> attribute via the context menu.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Home Page Reader has native support of longdesc and is still used
>>>>>>> in Japan for longdesc, even though it stopped being maintained years
>>>>>>> ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Long Description Favelet "announces the number of images with
>>>>>>> longdesc attributes and provides links to the long description file
>>>>>>> in each case." by James W. Thatcher. It works ubiquitously in
>>>>>>> Chrome, FireFox, Internet Explorer, Safari, Opera, and iCab.
>>>>>>> http://jimthatcher.com/favelets/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The following assistive technology informs users that an image has
>>>>>>> a long description, at which point the user has the option of
>>>>>>> reading the description or skipping it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Chromevox began supporting longdesc in version 1.26. It is
>>>>>>> announced and can be activated with Cvox + C > D
>>>>>>> http://www.chromevox.com/release_notes.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * NVDA will now announce the existence of the long description, and
>>>>>>> a user can press NVDA+d to open it.
>>>>>>> http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/809#comment:5
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * JAWS Version 4.01 and up supports longdesc.
>>>>>>> http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_products/software_jaws401newfea
>>>>>>> .asp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Adaptive Multimedia Information System (AMIS)
>>>>>>> http://www.daisy.org/projects/amis
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * AnyDaisy FF Extension
>>>>>>> https://launchpad.net/daisyextension
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * LookOUT in combination with WebbIE.
>>>>>>> http://www.screenreader.net/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Sense Reader Professional Edition v1.1.0.6 (KoreChromeVoxan)
>>>>>>> http://www.haeppa.kr/?page=10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * SuperNova/Hal
>>>>>>> http://www.yourdolphin.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Thunder in combination with WebbIE.
>>>>>>> http://www.screenreader.co.uk/product.php?shopprodid=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Window-Eyes
>>>>>>> http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Manual/HTML/advanced.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Home Page Reader has native support of longdesc and is still used
>>>>>>> in Japan for longdesc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AUTHORING TOOLS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The following authoring tools support the longdesc attribute.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * AChecker
>>>>>>> * AD Gallery
>>>>>>> * Alt Text Checker
>>>>>>> * Amaya
>>>>>>> * A-Prompt
>>>>>>> * ASP.NET
>>>>>>> * BlueGriffon
>>>>>>> * CKEditor
>>>>>>> * Connexions Markup Language (CNXML)
>>>>>>> * Cute Editor
>>>>>>> * Docbook Docbook XSL Documentation (html.longdesc)
>>>>>>> * Docbook XSL Documentation (html.longdesc.link)
>>>>>>> * Dreamweaver, Creative Suite
>>>>>>> * Drupal 7 - Drupal 7 Release Date, January 5, 2011.
>>>>>>> * easyALBUM
>>>>>>> * elRTE
>>>>>>> * Expression Studio
>>>>>>> * Expression Web
>>>>>>> * gp|Easy CMS
>>>>>>> * HERA
>>>>>>> * iGraph-Lite
>>>>>>> * Juicy Studio's Image Analyser
>>>>>>> * jQuery Accessible Longdesc Plugin
>>>>>>> * LongDesc Page Generator
>>>>>>> * ObjectDescription
>>>>>>> * Oxygen XML Editor
>>>>>>> * RadEditor for ASP.NET AJAX
>>>>>>> * Save As DAISY/MSWord Add-In
>>>>>>> * simplepie
>>>>>>> * SiteVision.se (CMS)
>>>>>>> * TinyMCE
>>>>>>> * WAVE
>>>>>>> * Weblight
>>>>>>> * WordPress longdesc Plugin Automatic longdesc to be added to
>>>>>>> WordPress
>>>>>>> * Visual Studio and ASP.NET
>>>>>>> * XStandard
>>>>>>> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/ld-ua.html#atools
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. Additional rationale for the comment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document should treat ARIA and longdesc
>>>>>>> equitably.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ARIA Techniques for WCAG 2.0 is cast in a positive light: "User
>>>>>>> Agent support for WAI-ARIA varies, but overall support for WAI-ARIA
>>>>>>> is improving."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/#wai-aria_ua_
>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In contrast H45: Using longdesc is cast in a negative light:
>>>>>>> "Voiceover 4.0, NVDA 2012, Orca 2.32.0, and Zoomtext 10.0 (and
>>>>>>> their earlier versions) do not support the longdesc attribute.
>>>>>>> Versions of JAWS earlier than JAWS 4.01 and versions of WindowEyes
>>>>>>> earlier than WindowEyes 4.5 do not support this attribute, but later
>>>>>>> versions do."
>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html
>>>>>>> There is no mention of longdesc improving i.e., NVDA, Chromevox,
>>>>>>> Firefox, the many extensions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please correct this situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Working Group Resolution (LC-2792):
>>>>>> Thanks for your comment and suggested text. This information is
>>>>>> useful,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> will be incorporated into the 'User Agent and Assistive Technology
>>>>>> Support Notes' found on
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#ua2.
>>>>>> 19.1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> read:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [DONE] User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support
>>>>>> is improving. Screen readers such as JAWS, NVDA, and Window-Eyes
>>>>>> support longdesc, but Voiceover 4.0, Orca 2.32.0, and screen
>>>>>> magnifier Zoomtext
>>>>>> 10.0 do not yet support the longdesc attribute. Browsers including
>>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, and Chrome (planned) all support
>>>>>> longdesc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chaals - standards declaimer
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Laura L. Carlson
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Chaals - standards declaimer
>


-- 
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Wednesday, 2 October 2013 11:50:27 UTC

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