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Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: User agent support ( LC-2792)

From: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:21:15 -0500
Message-ID: <CAOavpvc5f2SkPcoDUrNPQssF14W7KvwWEBpEzZwKbDONW0c3dQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Cc: Chaals Nevile <w3b@chaals.com>, "public-comments-wcag20@w3.org" <public-comments-wcag20@w3.org>, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@chromium.org>, Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>
Hi Andrew,

I understand.

A list of of longdesc tools is at:
http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/training/online/moodle_downloads/accessibility_104/longdesc_tools.html

Thank you.

Best Regards,
Laura

On 10/1/13, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
> Laura,
> The technique is not attempting to provide a comprehensive listing of tools
> that support longdesc or any other feature, and as a group we decided to not
> include the very comprehensive listing of tools you provided because doing
> that not only obligates the group to maintaining that listing but it
> obscures the technique itself.
>
> We are happy to link to a resource which provides this information - tell us
> which URI to point to and I'll add that to the comment for the group to
> review.
>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe Systems
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:13 AM
> To: Chaals Nevile; Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Cc: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org; Dominic Mazzoni; Joshue O Connor; John
> Foliot
> Subject: Re: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: User agent support (
> LC-2792)
>
> Hi,
>
> Thank you, Chaals. Yes. I agree about iCab. I had it listed in my original
> comment. It certainly does deserve to be listed in H45 along with the
> browsers that support longdesc. Andrew can it please be added?
>
> Best Regards,
> Laura
>
> On 9/30/13, Chaals Nevile <w3b@chaals.com> wrote:
>> Yeah, this looks reasonable enough for me.
>>
>> Because the world changes, I'm not as fussy about things that are
>> clearly "at the moment..." as I am about statements about the big long
>> future...
>> otherwise I'd be looking for something that points out that it doesn't
>> only work in screenreaders.
>>
>> For example, I am still impressed by the work that goes into making
>> iCab exemplary for its users, and in particular the fact that it has
>> supported longdesc approximately forever. (Despite working for two
>> browser makers since I first took up iCab I still have it, and use it
>> regularly).
>>
>> Thanks Laura for following this up.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:51:37 +0200, Laura Carlson
>> <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear WCAG WG,
>>>
>>> + Dominic Mazzoni
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for revising "H45 Using longdesc"'s UA section.
>>> To the best of my knowledge your new proposed text [1] for H45 is
>>> accurate. Chaals, do you concur?
>>>
>>> One screen reader that is missing is ChromeVox. It has longdesc support.
>>>
>>> Dominic, in July you had uploaded an initial draft Chrome
>>> implementation for longdesc. [1] What is the ETA of longdesc landing
>>> in Chrome? Perhaps the word "planned" can be removed from the phrase
>>> "Chrome (planned)" in WCAG 2.0 Technique H45: Using longdesc.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Laura
>>>
>>> [1] "User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
>>> improving. Screen readers such as JAWS, NVDA, and Window-Eyes support
>>> longdesc, but Voiceover 4.0, Orca 2.32.0, and screen magnifier
>>> Zoomtext 10.0 do not yet support the longdesc attribute. Browsers
>>> including Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, and Chrome (planned) all
>>> support longdesc."
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/H45.html#ua2.19.
>>> 1 [2] http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=224285#c26
>>>
>>> On 9/22/13, akirkpat@adobe.com <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>>>>  Dear Laura Carlson ,
>>>>
>>>> The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group has reviewed
>>>> the comments you sent [1] on the Last Call Working Draft [2] of the
>>>> Techniques for WCAG 2.0 published on 11 Jul 2013. Thank you for
>>>> having taken the time to review the document and to send us
>>>> comments!
>>>>
>>>> The Working Group's response to your comment is included below.
>>>>
>>>> Please review it carefully and let us know by email at
>>>> public-comments-wcag20@w3.org if you agree with it or not before 2
>>>> Oct 2013. In case of disagreement, you are requested to provide a
>>>> specific solution for or a path to a consensus with the Working
>>>> Group. If such a consensus cannot be achieved, you will be given the
>>>> opportunity to raise a formal objection which will then be reviewed
>>>> by the Director during the transition of this document to the next
>>>> stage in the W3C Recommendation Track.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> For the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group, Michael
>>>> Cooper W3C Staff Contact
>>>>
>>>>  1.
>>>> http://www.w3.org/mid/CAOavpveFp6GsrEBFik9je+6b=KYpd0mBk0n-Hngz=Dg1P
>>>> yo2mA@mail.gmail.com  2.
>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =====
>>>>
>>>> Your comment on H45: Using longdesc:
>>>>> 1. Title of the document
>>>>>
>>>>> Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Location within the document
>>>>>
>>>>> "User Agent and Assistive Technology Support Notes"
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#ua2
>>>>> .19.1
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Concern
>>>>>
>>>>> User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
>>>>> improving. The Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document should say that, as
>>>>> it does for ARIA. H45 should provide a full listing of support.
>>>>> There is now new and improved validator support and more widespread
>>>>> implementation (e.g. in Chrome Vox, NVDA, Firefox). This will lead
>>>>> authors to make fewer errors and users to experience longdesc.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Suggested change
>>>>>
>>>>> Please state that:
>>>>>
>>>>> User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
>>>>> improving. A collection of tools that provide support for longdesc
>>>>> exists.
>>>>>
>>>>> And provide a full listing of support:
>>>>>
>>>>> BROWSERS
>>>>>
>>>>> Opera, Firefox, Chromium, and Internet Explorer all support
>>>>> longdesc DOM reflection.
>>>>> http://people.opera.com/philipj/2011/01/23/longdesc/
>>>>>
>>>>> * As of Mozilla 25 Firefox has native support via the image context
>>>>> menu.
>>>>> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/
>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877453
>>>>> Firefox has accessibility API support.
>>>>>
>>>> https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/html/n
>>>> sHTMLImageAccessible.cpp
>>>>> Support for prior versions is supplied via:
>>>>>   * Longdesc Firefox Extension by Patrick H. Lauke, adds a "View
>>>>> Image Longdesc" option to the image context menu that activates the
>>>>> link to the long description.
>>>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/longdesc/
>>>>>   * Longdesk 0.2 FireFox Extension by Anthony Ricaud, adds a link
>>>>> to the longdesc under images that provides one.
>>>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/longdesk/
>>>>>
>>>>> * It is anticipated that Chrome will be providing native support.
>>>>> "Now that the spec has been published I think we can add it." -
>>>>> Dominic Mazzoni
>>>>>
>>>> http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-accessibility
>>>> /browse_thread/thread/6542ed13863a8f2c#
>>>>> Support for prior versions of Chrome is supplied via Longdesc
>>>>> plugin by Chris Kennish, which "highlights and provides right-click
>>>>> access to image long descriptions, where provided."
>>>>>
>>>> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/longdesc/haohljalgapbacpkf
>>>> efnmhiadanhejmb
>>>>>
>>>>> * iCab has native support of longdesc via a context-menu.
>>>>> http://www.icab.de/
>>>>>
>>>>> * Opera 1010b1 to Blink has native support of longdesc. Exposition
>>>>> of the longdesc is exposed by a right click on the image for which
>>>>> the longdesc has been defined.
>>>>> http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/mac/1010b1/#ui
>>>>> Support for prior versions of Opera is supplied via:
>>>>>   * TellMeMore Opera extension, which respects a web page's visual
>>>>> design yet provides critical functionality. It will "Find things
>>>>> that have more description available, and show them on demand.
>>>>> Where images (or something else) have a longdesc attribute, the
>>>>> extension notifies by changing its icon and title, and enables the
>>>>> user to see a list of the descriptions available, in its popup.
>>>>> When the user selects an item in the popup, a new window opens with the
>>>>> description in it."
>>>>> https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/tellmemore/
>>>>>
>>>>> * Internet Explorer (IE)
>>>>>   * When used together with assistive technology such as Jaws, IE
>>>>> makes longdesc accessible to the AT user.
>>>>>   * Configuring Internet Explorer to Handle Longdesc - Adds a
>>>>> context menu entry to extract the longdesc attribute value and have
>>>>> the page navigate to its content for sighted users. by Sean Hayes.
>>>>>
>>>> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/archive/2011/03/25/configuring
>>>> -internet-explorer-to-handle-longdesc.aspx
>>>>>   * Longdesc Linker for Internet Explorer 6 - Browser Helper Object
>>>>> which adds a "Long Description" item to the context menu that IE
>>>>> uses for images.
>>>>> http://www.hackcraft.net/longdesclink/
>>>>>
>>>>> * Netscape 7.0 (rv:1.0.1 Gecko/20020823) supports the longdesc
>>>>> attribute via the context menu.
>>>>>
>>>>> * Home Page Reader has native support of longdesc and is still used
>>>>> in Japan for longdesc, even though it stopped being maintained years
>>>>> ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> * Long Description Favelet "announces the number of images with
>>>>> longdesc attributes and provides links to the long description file
>>>>> in each case." by James W. Thatcher. It works ubiquitously in
>>>>> Chrome, FireFox, Internet Explorer, Safari, Opera, and iCab.
>>>>> http://jimthatcher.com/favelets/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY
>>>>>
>>>>> The following assistive technology informs users that an image has
>>>>> a long description, at which point the user has the option of
>>>>> reading the description or skipping it.
>>>>>
>>>>> * Chromevox began supporting longdesc in version 1.26. It is
>>>>> announced and can be activated with Cvox + C > D
>>>>> http://www.chromevox.com/release_notes.html
>>>>>
>>>>> * NVDA will now announce the existence of the long description, and
>>>>> a user can press NVDA+d to open it.
>>>>> http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/809#comment:5
>>>>>
>>>>> * JAWS Version 4.01 and up supports longdesc.
>>>>> http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_products/software_jaws401newfea
>>>>> .asp
>>>>>
>>>>> * Adaptive Multimedia Information System (AMIS)
>>>>> http://www.daisy.org/projects/amis
>>>>>
>>>>> * AnyDaisy FF Extension
>>>>> https://launchpad.net/daisyextension
>>>>>
>>>>> * LookOUT in combination with WebbIE.
>>>>> http://www.screenreader.net/
>>>>>
>>>>> * Sense Reader Professional Edition v1.1.0.6 (KoreChromeVoxan)
>>>>> http://www.haeppa.kr/?page=10
>>>>>
>>>>> * SuperNova/Hal
>>>>> http://www.yourdolphin.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> * Thunder in combination with WebbIE.
>>>>> http://www.screenreader.co.uk/product.php?shopprodid=1
>>>>>
>>>>> * Window-Eyes
>>>>> http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Manual/HTML/advanced.html
>>>>>
>>>>> * Home Page Reader has native support of longdesc and is still used
>>>>> in Japan for longdesc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> AUTHORING TOOLS
>>>>>
>>>>> The following authoring tools support the longdesc attribute.
>>>>>
>>>>> * AChecker
>>>>> * AD Gallery
>>>>> * Alt Text Checker
>>>>> * Amaya
>>>>> * A-Prompt
>>>>> * ASP.NET
>>>>> * BlueGriffon
>>>>> * CKEditor
>>>>> * Connexions Markup Language (CNXML)
>>>>> * Cute Editor
>>>>> * Docbook Docbook XSL Documentation (html.longdesc)
>>>>> * Docbook XSL Documentation (html.longdesc.link)
>>>>> * Dreamweaver, Creative Suite
>>>>> * Drupal 7 - Drupal 7 Release Date, January 5, 2011.
>>>>> * easyALBUM
>>>>> * elRTE
>>>>> * Expression Studio
>>>>> * Expression Web
>>>>> * gp|Easy CMS
>>>>> * HERA
>>>>> * iGraph-Lite
>>>>> * Juicy Studio's Image Analyser
>>>>> * jQuery Accessible Longdesc Plugin
>>>>> * LongDesc Page Generator
>>>>> * ObjectDescription
>>>>> * Oxygen XML Editor
>>>>> * RadEditor for ASP.NET AJAX
>>>>> * Save As DAISY/MSWord Add-In
>>>>> * simplepie
>>>>> * SiteVision.se (CMS)
>>>>> * TinyMCE
>>>>> * WAVE
>>>>> * Weblight
>>>>> * WordPress longdesc Plugin Automatic longdesc to be added to
>>>>> WordPress
>>>>> * Visual Studio and ASP.NET
>>>>> * XStandard
>>>>> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/ld-ua.html#atools
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Additional rationale for the comment
>>>>>
>>>>> The Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document should treat ARIA and longdesc
>>>>> equitably.
>>>>>
>>>>> ARIA Techniques for WCAG 2.0 is cast in a positive light: "User
>>>>> Agent support for WAI-ARIA varies, but overall support for WAI-ARIA
>>>>> is improving."
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/#wai-aria_ua_
>>>> support
>>>>>
>>>>> In contrast H45: Using longdesc is cast in a negative light:
>>>>> "Voiceover 4.0, NVDA 2012, Orca 2.32.0, and Zoomtext 10.0 (and
>>>>> their earlier versions) do not support the longdesc attribute.
>>>>> Versions of JAWS earlier than JAWS 4.01 and versions of WindowEyes
>>>>> earlier than WindowEyes 4.5 do not support this attribute, but later
>>>>> versions do."
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html
>>>>> There is no mention of longdesc improving i.e., NVDA, Chromevox,
>>>>> Firefox, the many extensions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please correct this situation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Working Group Resolution (LC-2792):
>>>> Thanks for your comment and suggested text. This information is
>>>> useful,
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>> will be incorporated into the 'User Agent and Assistive Technology
>>>> Support Notes' found on
>>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#ua2.
>>>> 19.1
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>> read:
>>>>
>>>> [DONE] User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support
>>>> is improving. Screen readers such as JAWS, NVDA, and Window-Eyes
>>>> support longdesc, but Voiceover 4.0, Orca 2.32.0, and screen
>>>> magnifier Zoomtext
>>>> 10.0 do not yet support the longdesc attribute. Browsers including
>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, and Chrome (planned) all support
>>>> longdesc.
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chaals - standards declaimer
>>
>
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>


-- 
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Tuesday, 1 October 2013 20:32:25 UTC

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