- From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:01:44 -0000
- To: "'Loretta Guarino Reid'" <lorettaguarino@google.com>
- Cc: <public-comments-wcag20@w3.org>, <public-i18n-core@w3.org>
Hello Loretta, After recent changes, the i18n WG is now satisfied with the response to this comment. Many thanks, RI ============ Richard Ishida Internationalization Lead W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) http://www.w3.org/International/ http://rishida.net/blog/ http://rishida.net/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Loretta Guarino Reid [mailto:lorettaguarino@google.com] > Sent: 07 February 2008 23:40 > To: Richard Ishida > Cc: public-comments-wcag20@w3.org; public-i18n-core@w3.org > Subject: Re: [WCAG2 TECHS] i18n comment 1: H34 example source direction > > We have updated the technique per your suggestions. Thank you for your help. > > The updated technique can be found at > http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20071218/H34.html > > We would appreciate knowing if there are still problems. > > Regards, > > Loretta Guarino Reid, WCAG WG Co-Chair > Gregg Vanderheiden, WCAG WG Co-Chair > Michael Cooper, WCAG WG Staff Contact > > On behalf of the WCAG Working Group > > > On Nov 16, 2007 9:30 AM, Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org> wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, there are still some significant problems with this > > technique. > > > > [1] "Unicode right-to-left marks and left-to-right marks can be entered > > directly or by means of entities. The character entities for these markers > > are" > > > > It would be better to say 'character entity' than 'entity' in the first > > sentence. Also character entities and numeric character references are > > different things, so I suggest you say > > > > "Unicode right-to-left marks and left-to-right marks can be entered directly > > or by means of character entities or numeric character references, as shown > > here" > > > > (Note also that the Character Model for the WWW recommends the use of hex > > NCRs, though I'm not going to insist on that here.) > > > > > > > > [2] "Inserting a Unicode right-to-left mark (in this case via the HTML > > character entity ‏)" > > > > That's an NCR, not a character entity. In the example, however, you use > > ‏ (which *is* a character entity), rather than ‏. > > > > > > > > [3] The shaded example of code is quite confusing, since it suffers from the > > very problem you are describing - ie. you haven't used an &rlm! ;-) The > > Arabic runs right to left, but the colon and ‏ are still on the right. > > This is a typical problem with trying to represent bidi source text > > examples, and it's why I try to avoid them whenever possible. > > > > One way around this is to say "Here is the text *ordered left-to-right in > > the sequence you would find in memory or type the text in the editor*" and > > apply a <bdo dir="ltr" to the pre element. That would look better with > > Hebrew, since the Arabic will still try to join up. > > > > To make this easier for you, I created the example for you, in Hebrew at > > http://www.www.org/International/2007/11/wai-examples.html (cut and paste > > the source text). > > > > On the other hand I strongly recommend that you drop the source code > > example, and explain things as I have under "Proposed alternative" in the > > same file. > > > > RI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ > > Richard Ishida > > Internationalization Lead > > W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) > > > > http://www.w3.org/International/ > > http://rishida.net/blog/ > > http://rishida.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: public-i18n-core-request@w3.org > > > [mailto:public-i18n-core-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Richard Ishida > > > Sent: 16 November 2007 15:43 > > > To: public-i18n-core@w3.org > > > Subject: [WCAG2 TECHS] i18n comment 1: H34 example source direction > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Loretta Guarino Reid [mailto:lorettaguarino@google.com] > > > Sent: 04 November 2007 05:09 > > > To: Richard Ishida > > > Cc: public-comments-WCAG20@w3.org > > > Subject: Your comments on WCAG 2.0 Public Working Draft of May, 2007 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Loretta Guarino Reid [mailto:lorettaguarino@google.com] > > > Sent: 04 November 2007 05:09 > > > ... > > > Please review our resolutions for the following comments, > > > and reply to us by 19 November 2007 at > > > public-comments-wcag20@w3.org to say whether you are > > > satisfied. Note that this list is publicly archived. > > > ... > > > WCAG 2.0 Editor's Draft of May-October 2007 at > > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-20071102/ > > > > > > ... > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Comment 6: H34: (example 1) describe that the is placed > > > > immediately alongside the exclamation mark > > > > Source: > > > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/200 > > > 7Jun/0042.html > > > > (Issue ID: 1964) > > > > ---------------------------- > > > > Original Comment: > > > > ---------------------------- > > > > > > > > Comment from the i18n review of: > > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20070517/ > > > > > > > > Comment 1 > > > > At http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/0706-wcag2-techniques/ > > > > Editorial/substantive: E > > > > Owner: RI > > > > > > > > Location in reviewed document: > > > > > > > > H34 > > > > > > > [http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-WCAG20-TECHS- > 20070517/Overview.html#H34] > > > > > > > > Comment: > > > > The example of source code is problematic, since it assumes a > > > > particular behaviour on the part of the authoring tool (see > > > > the discussion on this at > > > > > > > http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#d2e277 ). > > > > > > > > I would recommend just describing that the is placed > > > > immediately alongside the exclamation mark, and showing > > > > before and after examples of the displayed text, as in > > > > http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#r > > > i20030726.140315918 > > > > > > > > Note, also, that for people to appreciate the examples, their > > > > user agent needs to support bidi text display and Arabic > > > > fonts. This is why I am providing a pseudo-arabic version of > > > > the example in our best practices doc. > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > Response from Working Group: > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > Response: > > > Thank you for helping us improve this technique and its > > > example. We have made the following changes: > > > > > > * add to Description (before "The character entities for > > > these markers > > > are..."): "Unicode right-to-left marks and left-to-right > > > marks can be entered directly or by means of entities." > > > > > > * change order of numeric character entities and named > > > character entities in the list at the end of the Description. > > > > > > * add after this list: "Due to the bidi algorithm, a source > > > code editor may not display character entities as expected." > > > > > > * add "Problems with bidirectional source text" > > > (http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#d2e277) > > > to related resources. > > > > > > * change last sentence above example to :"Inserting a Unicode > > > right-to-left mark (in this case via the HTML character entity)... > > > > > > * replace named character entity with numeric character > > > entity in code of Example 1. > > > > > > * copy the visual ASCII example from > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-bidi/#ri20030218.135304584 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Friday, 28 March 2008 18:01:55 UTC