- From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:56:27 +0200
- To: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group WG <public-bpwg@w3.org>
Hi,
The minutes of today's call are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html
... and copied as text below.
As a TODO for everyone: Review and comment the new Addendum:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0001.html
Francois.
09 Oct 2008
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0013.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-irc
Attendees
Present
Francois, rob, adam, DKA, jo, Bryan_Sullivan, Sangwhan_Moon,
nacho, brucel, abel, manrique, DavidStorey, yeliz, kai
Regrets
Miguel, SeanP, dom, hgerlach, AlanC, jeffs
Chair
DKA
Scribe
yeliz
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Content Transformation TF
2. [6]Korea (if present)
3. [7]Checker
4. [8]Mobile Accessibility
5. [9]BP 1.5
6. [10]mobileOK scheme
7. [11]BP 2.0
8. [12]ISSUE-277
9. [13]ISSUE-279
10. [14]ISSUE-278
11. [15]ISSUE-247
12. [16]Closing actions...
* [17]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
Content Transformation TF
Francois: On Tuesday we had a good discussion, and send an email to
IETF TLS Working Group, we are moving forward, but still take time
Bryan: wasn't on that call, I send a list of comments in response to
Tom's comment
... since we decided to look into that in more details
... we need to address the points I raised.
... people need to be aware of that, it is an important topic
Francois: Yes. I re-read your comments before sending the email to
the IETF TLS WG to make sure I was not forgetting some crucial
point.
... I am not sure if at the end we will end up with more detailed
guidelines
... but we have to make sure that we understand the big pictures and
the caveats
... before we write down things to the spec
Bryan: just wanted to raise those points
Francois: I don't think it will be ready by the end of f2f meeting,
unfortunately
DKA: will add that to agenda, how much time we should spend on the
agenda
... could easily spend a day
Francois: one day too much, half day fantastic
Korea (if present)
DKA: anyone from Korea?
Checker
Abel: little bit activity in the mailing list
... some people asking how to use but nothing new in the development
DKA: anything that needs to be done in the f2f regarding checker
... what time would u like with the checker
Abel: not sure
... HTTPS stuff would be good to discuss
DKA: clarification?
Jo: I think we will be done with this before the f2f but the change
we proposed to mobileOK Basic Tests doesn't seem to work for the WSC
WG
Francois: re. the final change on HTTPS, we need to address it ASAP,
even though I don't think we can publish it before the F2F
... Jo do you have time to work on this?
Jo: I will do that tomorrow
Francois: Fantastic
Mobile Accessibility
DKA: Regarding Shawn's email to the public list, anything to discuss
there
<Jo: Yeliz is looking for feedback from several people, including
me, I think
<Yeliz: yes, I addressed all the feedback I received in the latest
version
<Jo: my assumption is that when that is done, we're done, right?
<Yeliz: yes.
<Yeliz: I won't be able to attend the F2F meeting.
<Yeliz: The EOWG is happy with this version.
BP 1.5
Jo: haven't seen any comment in the mailing list, I think we need to
action everybody for that
<DKA>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0001.htm
l
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0001.html
DKA: theme for feedback, free chocolate
... I will provide the chocolate, it works for 7 years old
mobileOK scheme
Jo: I haven't seen anything happened
... I believe Phil was redrafting
DKA: I think he is going to be in town because
... I can't see the result, Francois you need to tell us..
<francois> [Phil is not attending on Monday, and is attending the
Semantic Web IG on Tuesday]
BP 2.0
<DKA>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0014.htm
l
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0014.html
DKA: can you take us through this current draft
Adam: relatively small changes
... tackle namely those minor comments
... Added a new section,
... will try to fold in new useful best practices and also some more
that have been emailed to the list
... so that we can also discuss at F2F
Jo: we need to have a stable draft before F2F
... we need to have the changes before the F2F
Will do it before the beginning of next week
DKA: will read it before the meeting
... anything else we need to discuss about this document?
... I can think of one more thing, latency section
... change it around, etc
Adam: I think some of the sections need refactoring
... For example, one Web, not sure what the intend of this
DKA: The intend is ...
Adam: There are issues raised with respect to Bryan's comments, or
may be we want to read it before
... We got some open issues that Bryan raised, I addressed those so
we can discuss those
... so we can discuss my changes
DKA: why don't we discuss those
... do you want to introduce them?
<francois> [20]Open issues per product
[20]
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open?sort=product
Adam: can somebody open the issues
<DKA> [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open
[21] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open
<adam>
[22]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/E
D-mobile-bp2-20081008
[22]
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20081008
Adam: ?
... here is the document
Kai: any easy way of versioning on HTML documents?
<jo> [23]Dom's Diffatron
[23] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff
DKA: I got the list of issues here
ISSUE-277
<jo> ISSUE-277?
<trackbot> ISSUE-277 -- 3.3.1 Inform user about automatic network
access and provide control -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[24]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/277
[24] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/277
DKA: is it worth going through these
... ? and we can close the issue
<francois> [25]section 3.1.1
[25]
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20081008#bp-inform-automation
Adam: I separated out the whole section and added in some more
details about what kind of information can be used to inform the
user
... lost all my links
<jo> close ISSUE-277
Adam: I haven't done that - Issue: 279
... Automatic access, when is the good place to it, I couldn't think
of anything else
... do people have some ideas on this?
ISSUE-279
<francois> ISSUE-279
<francois> ISSUE-279?
<trackbot> ISSUE-279 -- 4.3.3 Provide Disclosures that are Timely
and Accessible -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[26]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/279
[26] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/279
DKA: add an action to complete that
<jo> ACTION: Bryan to propose text ref ISSUE-279 [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-861 - Propose text ref ISSUE-279 [on Bryan
Sullivan - due 2008-10-16].
ISSUE-278
<DKA> ISSUE-278?
<trackbot> ISSUE-278 -- 3.3.2 Inform user about use of PIM
information -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/278
[28] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/278
<jo> ISSUE-278?
<trackbot> ISSUE-278 -- 3.3.2 Inform user about use of PIM
information -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[29]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/278
[29] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/278
Adam: Thank, kind of works for me
<francois> [30]section 3.3.2
[30]
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20081008#bp-inform-personalinfo
Adam: I added all kinds of things that the user could do to address
that
Bryan: When you say PIM are you talking about context server?
Adam: In section 3.3.2 there is a bulleted list
... I have to go through my notes to check the changes
DKA: Any other issues that we can close
... ?
Adam: best to stay for f2f, 3.1.1 retains personalisation
information... Need to refactor and find another home for that, best
to discuss at F2F
<scribe> ACTION: Adam to send email about issues [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-862 - Send email about issues [on Adam
Connors - due 2008-10-16].
Bryan: I won't be at F2F
... needs discussion on whole notion of tailoring your
content/application for device
... what my user agent is? how user agents discloses its identity
and capability
... I made some precise comments.
... It is not well received with this group which puzzled me
DKA: Web apps group done a lot of work...
... both BP1 and BP2 based on the idea that you have information
about the device and you build UI based on that knowledge
... how you get that device knowledge? maybe that's why we try to be
away from that
Bryan: Other group is working on..
... This group is working on...
DKA: didn't your ... Browser is a web application, little semantic
difference
Bryan: I looked at phone widgets and other widgets, they all
disclose information about their identity and capability in the
headers
DKA: Maybe I am wrong, but we assumed that you have a device
knowledge
... we have agreed to explore in the document...In BP 2, we agreed
to specify device knowledge you need
Bryan: how to differentiate from one vendor to the other
DKA: talking about adding something to the response header
Bryan: I was referring to the HTTP request and if you look at XHR,
you'll see that the ability to add on the User-Agent, Accept headers
is there
... weak identity
.... you can also tweak the Accept header.
DKA: we need some public feedback
... we need to document that issue in the draft and seek public
feedback
Jo: I don't see emergency in this, I don't see the use case right
now, because web apps talk to their mother server
Bryan: web application...who they are, what they can do? what they
expect
... you have all the capabilities of all those APIs
<DKA> s/wurfl/device atlas/
Adam: Web app on the client need to know the device to render
properly, may be there are use to
... I haven't see an email to the mailing list, a use case? I have
difficulty understanding the use case
<jo> 4. The XMLHttpRequest Object
<jo> The XMLHttpRequest object can be used by scripts to
programmatically connect to their originating server via HTTP.
DKA: the text will be changed
Jo: we can't talk about a recommendation that does not exist today
... we cannot just guess
DKA: any other comments?
Francois: amending the HTTP User-Agent to identify the Web App could
be useful when there is a Content Transformation proxy on the line
to tell that it is not intended for browsing, intended to be
processed by Web apps, a real use case? don't have a clear opinion
DKA: there might be some arguments...Need feedback
... it's clear you could do...
... it makes sense to seek for public feedback
Bryan: I can also raise a issue, I can't see how...
DKA: request feedback on this point
... no feedback...it doesn't mean anything
... need feedback yes or no..
... public discussion...
... there is a new W3C group to..
ISSUE-247
<francois> ISSUE-247?
<trackbot> ISSUE-247 -- What advices can we offer on the use of
geolocation in mobile web applications? -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/247
[32] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/247
DKA: in my view, I encourage everybody to check the charter and
possibly join the group
... we can close the issue
... any other comments?
... may be we do need something in the document
Jo: we don't have to ... in the document
<adam> +1
Jo: we can't have a best practice that relates to a rec that hasn't
been written
Adam: just a long list of ...
DKA: lets close this issue
<francois> close ISSUE-247
DKA: are there other issues or actions that people would like to
discuss?
<Sangwhan_Moon> ISSUE-276?
<trackbot> ISSUE-276 -- 3.1.1 Retain Personalization Information --
RAISED
<trackbot>
[33]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/276
[33] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/276
Closing actions...
DKA: I like to close action 851
<francois> ACTION-851?
<trackbot> ACTION-851 -- Daniel Appelquist to write to WebApps to
see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F -- due
2008-10-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/851
[34] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/851
<jo> close ACTION-851
<francois> Close ACTION-851
<trackbot> ACTION-851 Write to WebApps to see if we could hold a
joint meeting during TPAC F2F closed
<trackbot> ACTION-851 Write to WebApps to see if we could hold a
joint meeting during TPAC F2F closed
<jo> close action-839
<trackbot> ACTION-839 Arrange BP 2.0 editorial meeting to fit in
with his hectic globe trotting schedule closed
ACTION-839?
<trackbot> ACTION-839 -- Daniel Appelquist to arrange BP 2.0
editorial meeting to fit in with his hectic globe trotting schedule
-- due 2008-09-11 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[35]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/839
[35] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/839
DKA: any other actions that people have completed?
<francois> ACTION-849?
<trackbot> ACTION-849 -- François Daoust to check about missing
Korean participants -- due 2008-09-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[36]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/849
[36] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/849
<francois> close ACTION-849
<trackbot> ACTION-849 Check about missing Korean participants closed
Francois: action 849 can be closed as well
<francois> Close ACTION-856
<trackbot> ACTION-856 Chase WSC WG ref proposed change to mobileOK
Basic closed
ACTION-841?
<trackbot> ACTION-841 -- Jo Rabin to review WSC comment and propose
new wording -- due 2008-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[37]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/841
[37] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/841
<jo> close ACTION-841
<trackbot> ACTION-841 Review WSC comment and propose new wording
closed
Jo: action 841 could be closed?
<jo> ACTION-851
<jo> ACTION-851?
<trackbot> ACTION-851 -- Daniel Appelquist to write to WebApps to
see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F -- due
2008-10-02 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[38]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/851
[38] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/851
ACTION-859?
<trackbot> ACTION-859 -- François Daoust to contact IETF TLS group
and advise them of what we are thinking and ask for guidance on what
to recommend to Content Provider about detecting the presence of a
man-in-the-middle proxy -- due 2008-10-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[39]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/859
[39] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/859
<jo> ACTION-841?
<trackbot> ACTION-841 -- Jo Rabin to review WSC comment and propose
new wording -- due 2008-09-11 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[40]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/841
[40] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/841
<Kai> We can close 837
ACTION-837?
<trackbot> ACTION-837 -- Kai Scheppe to provide explanatory text for
the addendum which will put the document (mobileOK Pro Tests 1) in
the correct context and explain to the audience that it is intended
to aid content authors in creating still better content. -- due
2008-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[41]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/837
[41] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/837
<jo> ACTION: Jo to reword following WSC WG feedback on proposed
changes to mobileOK Basic [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-863 - Reword following WSC WG feedback on
proposed changes to mobileOK Basic [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-10-16].
<francois> [43]Actions pending review
[43] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/pendingreview
ACTION-792?
<trackbot> ACTION-792 -- Abel Rionda to propose some text on SVG --
due 2008-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[44]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/792
[44] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/792
DKA: we don't have any txt on SVG
... the text is actually here
<DKA>
[45]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0090.htm
l
[45] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0090.html
DKA: we need to think about his, Adam r u aware of this?
<Kai> close action-739
<trackbot> ACTION-739 Summarize (again) discussion on Ajax/XHR and
propose some resolutions closed
Adam: probably not
DKA: web developers might want to SVG, ...working group is working a
format to encourage people use SVG
... what I suggest Adam review the input and then give feedback to
the group
Adam: that sounds good
... will print out and give feedback
DKA: Action on Adam and Bryan ...
... discuss in the next 10 mnutes
... ?
<Kai> close action-793
<trackbot> ACTION-793 Work with Scott to produce proposed text on
caching that goes beyond BP 1 closed
DKA: suggest action Adam to review people and Bryan should also
review
... suggest to close the call?
... any F2F logistical issue?
Francois: no
... we will have the polycom on both Monday and Tuesyda
DKA: Bryan can you please let us know the times you are available
... send your availability to the mailing list
... then we can arrange the agenda to schedule the BP2 time around
that
Bryan: do you know time difference? 11 hours?
DKA: any other items?
... thanks everybody
<nacho> bye everyone
<francois> s/Will do it before the begining of next week/Adam: Will
do it before the begining of next week/
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Adam to send email about issues [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Bryan to propose text ref ISSUE-279 [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Jo to reword following WSC WG feedback on proposed
changes to mobileOK Basic [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 9 October 2008 15:57:02 UTC