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[minutes] BPWG Teleconference Thursday 17 July 2008

From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:45:09 +0200
Message-ID: <487F6905.7070908@w3.org>
To: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group WG <public-bpwg@w3.org>

Hi,

The minutes of today's call are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-minutes.html

... and copied as text below

Resolutions:
- the working group resolves to release a first public working draft of 
BP2 based on the current draft from 17 July
- No calls on 14 and 21 Aug, review on 31 July need for a call on Aug 7
- BPWG welcomes the liaison request from ETSI and wishes to proceed with 
it. BPWG notes that it works in public and that documents from ETSI 
would not be private when discussed by BPWG. BPWG asks Chairs/Team to 
progress this discussion

Francois.


17 Jul 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0056.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           DKA, jo, Francois, jeffs, drooks, adam, Kai, Bryan_Sullivan,
           SeanP, Seungyun

    Regrets
           Pontus, rob, Chaals, AlanC, Murari, Aaron, Miguel, Soonho,
           Scott, EdM, Yeliz, dom, hgerlach

    Chair
           DKA

    Scribe
           jo, DKA, francois

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Web Apps Best Practices
          2. [6]CT Task Force Report
          3. [7]Korean Task Force Report
          4. [8]POWDER
          5. [9]BP 1.5 (formerly mobileOK Pro)
          6. [10]Summer Meeting Schedule
          7. [11]ETSI
          8. [12]AOB
      * [13]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <seungyun> Hi all

    <seungyun> I am Seungyun Lee from ETRI, Korea

    <seungyun> I am only available on IRC sorry.

    <jo> scribe: jo

    <DKA>
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/E
    D-mobile-bp2-20080717

      [14] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20080717

Web Apps Best Practices

    adam: tried to fold in comments from F2F, tried to condense it a
    bit, a ways to go before a complete document but the goal of the doc
    is clear enough to go to FPWD. This week's doc is just a few typo
    fixes no major changes from last week

    dka: what is incomplete at this point or need additional stuff where
    we need to draw attention

    adam: additional bps from scott on presentation issues and added a
    note to say we expect to see more
    ... the section on User Identity is more than it set out to be, can
    address this in future revisions
    ... most bits that need attention have editorial notes

    dka: jo?

    jo: think it is good to go

    <jeffs> "should be retained"? user decisions?

    jo: think we should kick this off now, not a complete doc but is
    just fine for a fpwd

    <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the working group resolves to release a
    first public working draft of BP2 based on the current draft from 17
    July.

    francois: no need to worry about exclusion as it is non normative

    <jeffs> +1

    <francois> +1

    +1

    <DKA> +1

    <jeffs> getting pub feedback fine

    <Kai> +1

    <DKA> okeydokey

    RESOLUTION: the working group resolves to release a first public
    working draft of BP2 based on the current draft from 17 July.

    <jeffs> +1

    jo: well done bryan and adam!

    francois: I am trying to coordinate the release of BP1 with XHTML
    Basic 1.1 etc. and I would like this to go with it which means that
    it would wait a week

    dka: I don't see that as a problem ... francois can you explain @@@

    <DKA> Can we talk about the press release and the rechartering?

    <DKA> (as agendum 1)

    francois: there is no news on the rechartering - the AC review runs
    to end July so nothing can happen on that front, at least there is
    no bad news.
    ... so far
    ... the press release, taking more time than we hoped it's difficult
    to release more than one doc at the same time, originally we were
    going to do a press release next week, - either it will slip by a
    week, that is most likely, or it will slip by 6 weeks to september -
    hoping that we will be done by the 29th July, but can't be sure

    <DKA> I sent in Vodafone's testimonial today, FYI.

    francois: mcf is going to send a reminder shortly on testimonials -
    already did this, now a reminder with a more precise press release
    draft
    ... although we decided to move mobileOK to PR it may not make it at
    the same time

    <DKA> I will have to revise my rider then.

    <DKA> I think it's much better to do it as one big bang release.

    jo: I'd prefer if the checker announcement went at the same time as
    mobileOK Basic, rather than before

    francois: I agree, basically, but don't think it makes much
    difference
    ... the press release wont refer to the java library it will refer
    to the online presence
    ... we'll do another press release in Sept when mobileOK goes to PR

    <DKA> go jo

    jo: I think we need to discuss what status the online presence of
    the checker has

    francois: yes, you man we should not talk about this in the press
    release

    jo: yes, the group was not chartered to produce this and it is not a
    deliverable

    francois: difficult to talk about the java library in the press
    release, I will talk to MCF about it

CT Task Force Report

    <jeffs> sorry, gotta go... must put out "fire"

    <DKA> Scribe: DKA

    <scribe> ScribeNick: DKA

    Francois: I hope we can publish a last call in a few weeks' time.

    <scribe> Scribe: DKA

    <scribe> ScribeNick: DKA

    Jo: I think we should publish a second public working draft next
    week.

    Francois: Publish it as it is and get some feedback?

    Jo: I think we need a new public revision whether or not it's a last
    call.

    Francois: I'd prefer if we can do a last call. Let's see how many
    comments there are.

    I agree - we should try to publish it as a last call.

    <jo> [I think the document needs to be complete for last call, and
    it won't be by next week]

    I have a commercially driven need to release the doc as a lc.

    Francois: What's left?

    Jo: It will need another task force call to agree any changes.
    ... HTTPS stuff is a major issue.

    <seungyun> Can I see some reference implementation of CT at the
    moment?

    Jo: We don't have a reference implementation at the moment. The
    point of LC is to encourage people to go to implementation phase.

    <seungyun> OK I see, thanks

    Jo: We're as anxious as we can be to move the story forward to move
    to CR as soon as possible.

    +1

    <jo> [the point of CR is to get implementation experience so we are
    really keen to push forward to get to that point and we have to go
    to last call first]

    <seungyun> The reason why I ask is that we may need CT
    implementation for our mobileOK trial service in Korea.

    <jo> scribe: Jo

    jo: I believe, in response to Seungyun's point, that the document is
    very nearly stable so it is about time to start implementations

    <seungyun> If there is no, we will try to implement it by ourself
    followed by W3C's CT spec I think.

    <seungyun> I agree.

    francois: I agree, but we won't be producing any reference
    implementations

    <seungyun> ok

    francois: people have until Tuesday to make comments on the current
    draft - assuming everything is fine we can recommend to go to last
    call on Thursday next week. If on the other hand we were not ready
    we could do a 2nd PWD

    dka: I'd like to see us getting the work done before everyone goes
    on holiday
    ... so we need to be in LC asap

    <seungyun> +1

Korean Task Force Report

    <seungyun> I have a short report for KoreanTF.

    dka: anything to report from Korea?

    <DKA> Anything to report from Korean Task Force, Seungyun?

    <DKA> Thanks go ahead on IRC if you wish.

    <seungyun> nothing special, but I have short report

    <seungyun> thanks

    <DKA> Ok - do you want to paste it in or link to a document or do
    you want to join us on audio?

    <seungyun> 1. We have updated some TF members for NHN, TTA.

    <seungyun> As a result, all of TF members are BPWG members at the
    moment.

    <DKA> That's good news.

    <DKA> So this addresses the issue that some Korean Task Force
    members were not W3C members?

    [noted that Soon-il Cha, Dongjin Choi and Jae-kyung Shin have joined
    the group - Welcome!]

    <seungyun> I believe it is starting point to encourage them to join
    the W3C as a potential member: TTA, NHN

    <francois> Scribe: francois

    <DKA> Great.

    <seungyun> 2. We are now preparing the Gap Analysis documents.

    <DKA> Anything further from Korean TF at this point?

    <DKA> ok sorry!

    <seungyun> in order to make more relevant document, we will discuss
    about again our document framework.

    <scribe> scribe: Jo

    <seungyun> there was one open issue for our document work, which is
    about how to reflect our Gap analysis document to W3C BPWG standards
    in future?

    <DKA> I think we (the main group) needs to review your document and
    apply it to future work (e.g. BP2).

    <DKA> Make sense?

    <seungyun> I agree in personally :)

    <DKA> Ok - what is the expected time-frame for finishing that
    document?

    <seungyun> maybe this october or november

    when do you expect a first draft?

    <DKA> Would be better earlier - as the earlier it comes to us the
    more influential it will be over BP2.

    it would be useful to have an understanding of the direction asap

    <DKA> And we are expected to be quite well along on BP2 by November.

    <seungyun> BTW, In the next meeting, I am able to speak more clear
    plan for our document.

    so it can influence both BP2 and BP 1.5

    <seungyun> I agree

    <seungyun> I really hope so.

    <DKA> Ok thanks - can you communicate to the other TF members that
    getting a draft of that gap analysis to the main group earlier would
    be desireable?

    <seungyun> So we will do our best.

    OK, so can we ask if you would report on timescales on the list, or
    on the next WG call?

    <DKA> Ok thanks!

    <seungyun> sure

    <seungyun> 3. Mobile Web 2.0 Forum is now preparing the Preparing
    Trial Service

    <seungyun> It is expected that we will start it from next month and
    many players including network operators, portals, vendors will join
    it.

    <seungyun> we will explore BP, DD standards and MobileOK schemes.

    <DKA> Sorry Seungyun --

    <seungyun> after our trail service, we also publish the report
    document to BPWG.

    <seungyun> this is all of report for Korean TF today.

    <DKA> Ok thanks, Seungyun - much appreciated you joining us so late
    in your day to deliver that report.

    <seungyun> any question about our trial service?

    <seungyun> thanks

    [seungyun, suggest we take comments on the mailing list as we are a
    bit short of time now, thanks for the report]

POWDER

    kai: hoping to go to last call on most things in a week or tow [?]
    ... mobileOK ...

    <Kai> There some minor changes to the mobileOK vocab and example
    that Phil had sent to the group. As such we should use the latest
    version of this example.

    [ref the mobileOK vocab, the sooner the better but we have a log jam
    on mobileOK scheme, so timeliness is not holidng us up]

    <Kai>
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2007/powder/Group/powder-dr/20080711.html#evid
    ence

      [15] 
http://www.w3.org/2007/powder/Group/powder-dr/20080711.html#evidence

    kai: the referenced doc needs to change to note that there is no Pro
    any more

    <DKA> "There is One MobileOK"

    <Zakim> jo, you wanted to observe that we don't have a mobileOK
    ovcab doc any more

    [discussion about whether the claim is for mobileOK or for mobileOK
    Basic Tests]

    [there was a resolution at Sophia that apparently has been
    ambiguously interpreted]

    Issue: Need clarity on the meaning of a mobileOK Claim, Basic Tests
    or not?

    <trackbot> Created ISSUE-269 - Need clarity on the meaning of a
    mobileOK Claim, Basic Tests or not? ; please complete additional
    details at
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/269/edit .

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/269/edit

    <Kai> Here is the current text of the example (excerpt thereof)

    <Kai> <descriptorset>

    <Kai> 13 <typeof src="[17]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/mobileOK#Basic"
    />

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/mobileOK#Basic

    <Kai> 14 <displaytext>The example.com webiste conforms to mobileOK
    Basic</displaytext>

    <Kai> 15 <displayicon
    src="[18]http://www.w3.org/ICONS/mobileOK-basic.png" />

      [18] http://www.w3.org/ICONS/mobileOK-basic.png

    <Kai> 16 </descriptorset>

    dka: I thought we had clarified that we were going to minimise the
    use of the word Basic in all the material but I am not emotional
    about that kind of thing

    kai: the salient sections are pasted above - the type of claim, the
    description, and so on
    ... and also the icon

    dka: do we need to make this an issue and discuss further?

    jo: think we should discuss on list and deal with it next week

BP 1.5 (formerly mobileOK Pro)

    kai: no progress
    ... back to mobileOK basic, I think the group would be more in
    favour of Basic, but that is just a subjective view

Summer Meeting Schedule

    dka: have we already decided this, is this 2008? Am I dan?

    <francois> [19]Poll results

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/bpwg-summer08/results

    <DKA> :)

    francois: no we haven't made a decision
    ... no strong views expressed
    ... Aug 14 and 21 fewer people around, suggest we drop those calls
    as we are chairless for those days anyway

    [yes]

    scribe: rechartering review period is done on 28 we need a call on
    the 31st
    ... in case there is anything to discuss

    PROPOSED RESOLUTION: No calls on 7 and 14 Aug, review on 31 July
    need for a call on Aug 7

    PROPOSED RESOLUTION: No calls on 14 and 21 Aug, review on 31 July
    need for a call on Aug 7

    dka: makes fun of jo

    jo: preserves a dignified silence

    <DKA> :)

    <DKA> +1

    RESOLUTION: No calls on 14 and 21 Aug, review on 31 July need for a
    call on Aug 7

    <DKA> way

    <Kai> regrets for Aug 7th :-)

    <Kai> I am on vaction .. yeahh!!

ETSI

    PROPOSED RESOLUTION: BPWG welcomes the liaison request from ETSI and
    wishes to proceed with it. BP notes that it works in public and asks
    Chairs/Team to progress this discussion

    <francois> [20]ETSI liaison document

      [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Jul/0036.html

    dka: ETSI wishes to exchange documents and wishes to reference work
    of the BPWG
    ... don't see any reason not to accept this, benefit may be wider
    reference to our work

    <DKA> +1

    <seungyun> +1

    PROPOSED RESOLUTION: BPWG welcomes the liaison request from ETSI and
    wishes to proceed with it. BPWG notes that it works in public and
    that documents from ETSI would need to be in the public domain. BPWG
    asks Chairs/Team to progress this discussion

    <Kai> +1 to welcoming ETSI

    PROPOSED RESOLUTION: BPWG welcomes the liaison request from ETSI and
    wishes to proceed with it. BPWG notes that it works in public and
    that documents from ETSI would not be private when discussed by
    BPWG. BPWG asks Chairs/Team to progress this discussion

    <DKA> +1

    dka: public domain may be misconstrued
    ... ok let's take it, any dissention?

    +1

    <Kai> +1

    <seungyun> +1

    RESOLUTION: BPWG welcomes the liaison request from ETSI and wishes
    to proceed with it. BPWG notes that it works in public and that
    documents from ETSI would not be private when discussed by BPWG.
    BPWG asks Chairs/Team to progress this discussion

    <DKA> Rockin.

    <scribe> ACTION: DKA to get back to ETSI in accordance with above
    resolution [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-814 - Get back to ETSI in accordance with
    above resolution [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2008-07-24].

    dka: let's call it a day and do ISSUEs and ACTIONs next week

    <DKA> AOB?

AOB

    <DKA> Hearing none...

    there being none the call closed at 1615+1

    <seungyun> goodbye all, I am going to bed :)

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: DKA to get back to ETSI in accordance with above
    resolution [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 17 July 2008 15:46:14 UTC

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