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RE: ISSUE-237 (Define Mobile Web Applications): What is the definition of a "Mobile W

From: Jo Rabin <jrabin@mtld.mobi>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:04:55 -0000
Message-ID: <C8FFD98530207F40BD8D2CAD608B50B4C4A5F4@mtldsvr01.DotMobi.local>
To: "Holley Kevin (Centre)" <Kevin.Holley@O2.com>, <jeffs@it.rit.edu>, <public-bpwg@w3.org>
I really like Jeff;s contribution below - some elaboration of his points using his original numbering and in answer to some of the points raised:


1. I think that trying to define what "Web" means is a rat hole we oughtn't address. It it causes confusion we need to replace with a more specific term. I'd elaborate this definition to say that data is generally provided in an XML or _HTML_ form.


2. This seems a key point: the structure of the application's appearance has something to do with HTML and DOM. I think this matters because we are talking about a mainly-declarative style of creating applications. Hence SVG is in scope but purely procedural applications are not. There's obviously a slippery slope here in the sense that one could presumably write a purely procedural Javascript implementation ...


3. It doesn't have to use CSS per se, but at the core of what we are defining is an application that controls its appearance via css properties, whether this is via a style sheet or not is probably not the main point.


4. Offers autonomous control by the client of its interaction with the User and Server independently of a server - or perhaps "implements interaction logic locally". In practice this will be via ECMAScript but in theory we don't care as long as 2. and 3. hold. 


5. Not sure about the movement bit so much as "to be used on devices that are used in different and changing user contexts". There is possibly a point to be discussed about whether this necessarily implies "used in motion", or even "used in different places". 


6. What we mean by handheld is problematic but that is the essence of what we are saying. Possibly we mean: With limited input and display features when compared with a desktop experience.


7. Yes. When compared with the fixed connectivity (in the developed world) intermittent, slow, costly. But we also don't just mean data networks provided by telephony providers, we do also mean other "varying context" access.


I think this is an excellent basis of definition. I hope that it also includes Sean Owen's point which I agree with but obviously think should be extended in this way.





From: public-bpwg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-bpwg-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Holley Kevin (Centre)
Sent: 21 February 2008 18:04
To: jeffs@it.rit.edu; public-bpwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: ISSUE-237 (Define Mobile Web Applications): What is the definition of a "Mobile W


Thanks but I still have some questions:

1. What does "web" mean?

2. Why does a widget have to use cascading style sheets? - note that a web browser will not use CSS if the source material provided over http does not have CSS.

3 why is your item 2 relevant - how can you tell the difference?

4. Your 4 doesn't apply to all http cases - see my 2 above

5. 5 and 6 look to me like they should be combined.



Kevin Holley
Manager, Application Standards
Group Technology
Telefónica O2 Europe plc,

Direct Line: +44 1473 782214
Mobile: +44 7802 220811
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Email: kevin.holley@o2.com
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----- Original Message -----
From: public-bpwg-request@w3.org <public-bpwg-request@w3.org>
To: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group WG <public-bpwg@w3.org>
Sent: Thu Feb 21 17:49:04 2008
Subject: Re: ISSUE-237 (Define Mobile Web Applications): What is the definition of a "Mobile W

my "first cut" at a reasonably satisfying definition:

-----  snip  -----

   A "Mobile Web Application" (or "mobile webapp") is
   a client application that:

     1. uses the Internet and the Web to access data,
       generally provided in XML form
     2. models the data on the client device in the form of a
       Document Object Model
     3. uses Cascading Style Sheets to presesent the data
       on the client device
     4. uses a scripting language (often ECMAScript or a
       derivative) to control the data and view on the client
     5. can operate successfully on client devices which may move
     6. can be presented successfully on handheld client devices
     7. can operate successfully in a networking environment
       which may involve intermittent, relatively slow, and relatively
       expensive connectivity

-----  snip  -----


"wanting to meet a writer because you like their books
  is like wanting to meet a duck because you like pate"
- attributed to Margaret Atwood by Kamila Shamsie -

Prof. Jeff Sonstein
Director, MS-IT Program


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Received on Thursday, 21 February 2008 19:05:29 UTC

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