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AW: VSS instantiation discussion

From: Schildt Sebastian (CR/ADT1) <Sebastian.Schildt@de.bosch.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 11:59:28 +0000
To: public-automotive <public-automotive@w3.org>
Message-ID: <caaaace8400c4410ad1725cf3b7e2966@de.bosch.com>

Let me just quickly "disarm" my CSV comments ad put "dumb" in a perspective, as I think this is not the main point we need to  discuss :)

The point is, in VSS (in YAML) is a tree/graph. Formats like JSON or maybe RDF can capture this (and easily attach all metadata). CSV as such has no concept of graphs/parents/childs, so the "."-notation is a convention: CSV doesn't care, I/my App  needs to know what vehicle.Body.xx.yy" means in VSS context. There may be other useful formats that cannot preserve all semantics and contents of VSS (except by  using conventions). So let me replace "sane" with "obvious": There are output formats where it is not "obvious" how to project all of VSS semantic , and depending on an application might not even be needed.
Therefore this was just my argument to not make the wording regarding "transformations MUST preserve" anything too hard.

(I still strongly agree that if we have "paths" in the tree they have to look similar in all uses)

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Sebastian Schildt

Communication and Network Technology (DS1) (CR/ADT1)
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> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Gunnar Andersson <gandersson@genivi.org>
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. Juli 2020 13:12
> An: Schildt Sebastian (CR/ADT1) <Sebastian.Schildt@de.bosch.com>; public-
> automotive <public-automotive@w3.org>
> Betreff: Re: VSS instantiation discussion
> On Wed, 2020-07-08 at 09:54 +0000, Schildt Sebastian (CR/ADT1) wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > As usual (well most of the time J ) what Ulf says makes sense.
> >
> > First two points I would agree, however for the last one “All metadata
> > from a node in YAML MUST be preserved in the translations, except for
> > instantiation metadata that MUST not be present. “
> >
> > I am not so sure. Because if exporting to “dumb” formats like .csv it
> > might not even be possible to do that in a sane way.
> As of today I would say that as of today all formats are equally dumb or smart
> (basically they include exactly the same information) but maybe not in some of the
> future scenarios that were discussed.
> Please explain further what you mean that it is not possible to do in a
> sane way.   We have made proposals already how to describe the complete
> "flat" tree after insantiation has happened.  So those are not sane or your mind is
> on a different scenario.
> > Personally I doubt the usefulness of CSV export anyway, but since some
> > people use it/need it, such things should not be forbidden.
> I have the same view of CSV but almost for all other formats too, including
> JSON, as we discussed yesterday.   Individual consumers may want to have
> these formats, but the VSS itself should stay concentrated on the meaning of the
> source format in YAML.  That said, I think it's also most likely that VSS must define
> some things about how instantiation is transformed into a concrete tree, instead of
> leaving that open for implementations.
> I'm mostly hoping for a single basic translation in all cases, not different ones
> depending on the target format.

Received on Wednesday, 8 July 2020 11:59:45 UTC

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