Re: Accname question regarding self-references

So the question is what should be the accessible name not what a screen reader should read. I’d fully expect the value to read when navigating to the field whatever the accessible name is.

________________________________
From: Sina Bahram <sina@sinabahram.com>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 7:02:30 PM
To: 'Gunderson, Jon R' <jongund@illinois.edu>; James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com>; 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Accname question regarding self-references


Jon,



Yeah, you’re right. apparently I haven’t fully entered work mode for the new year. Plus, this is actually consistent, aria-labelledby overrides aria-label, and the value must be preserved because otherwise all your fields being marked up with errors via aria-labelledby will not be able to tell you what is inside of them. Where this deviates is it chooses value over aria-label when input’s name goes to be calculated.



So, sorry about that, and I do change my answer to B, although C could be argued for because what this interpretation does is make a self-referential aria-labelledby choose value over aria-label. That works for edit fields, but are there other situations where this results in a suboptimal outcome? I was wondering about  simulating grouping, but there’s separate roles for that, as well as you having description and describedby for additional information, so B seems like it may avoid some double-reading there.



I’m interested to hear what others think, but I do think value should be in there because otherwise lots of forms will be far less usable.



Thanks for pushing back on this, Jon.



Take care,

Sina



President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.

Phone: 919-345-3832

https://www.PAC.bz

Twitter: @SinaBahram

Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com



From: Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 9:01 PM
To: Sina Bahram <sina@sinabahram.com>; 'James Nurthen' <nurthen@adobe.com>; 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Accname question regarding self-references



Sina,



I don’t think something with the name “aria-label” should override a widget “value”.



If we want to override values, lets create “aria-value” property.



Using “aria-label” to override values will make a complex and confusing labelling algorithm even more complex and confusing.



Jon





From: Sina Bahram <sina@sinabahram.com>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 7:55 PM
To: Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu>; 'James Nurthen' <nurthen@adobe.com>; 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Accname question regarding self-references



I’m thinking A because aria-label overrides input so value no longer matters, but then aria-labelledby takes precedence so it overrides with a reference to the label followed by itself which is labeled by aria-label.



President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.

Phone: 919-345-3832

https://www.PAC.bz<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.PAC.bz__;!!DZ3fjg!pQ20yRmAU1uapiaO2j8ykCH6OEECxA6dp4Io4QdgkxlFt6b_EX8szDd56lCVxy3ugQ$>

Twitter: @SinaBahram

Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.sinabahram.com__;!!DZ3fjg!pQ20yRmAU1uapiaO2j8ykCH6OEECxA6dp4Io4QdgkxlFt6b_EX8szDd56lB37iq9yw$>



From: Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu<mailto:jongund@illinois.edu>>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:34 PM
To: James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com<mailto:nurthen@adobe.com>>; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Accname question regarding self-references



My vote is for B “The label the value”



The aria-label on the input element should be ignored.



Jon







From: James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com<mailto:nurthen@adobe.com>>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 7:30 PM
To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
Subject: Accname question regarding self-references



We are having a debate in a Chrome issue about the following.



According to the accessible name algorithm what should be the accessible name of the input in the below



<span id="label">The Label</span>

<input id="input" aria-label="ariaLabel" aria-labelledby="label input" value="the value">



Choices

  1.  “The label ariaLabel”
  2.  “The label the value”
  3.  “The label ariaLabel the value”
  4.  Something else…





James Nurthen (he/him)
Accessibility engineer

T 415 832 2734
nurthen@adobe.com<mailto:nurthen@adobe.com>

[Adobe]