Re: Use cases for aria-relevant?

Thanks James. I filed https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/712  --
"aria-relevant: find real-world use cases, consider deprecating it"

Aaron


On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com> wrote:

> +1
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> I think this is worth logging an issue as I agree entirely. Having tried
> to use aria-relevant before I concluded it was useless and fell back to
> other methods.
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>
> *James Nurthen*  |  Accessibility Engineer  |  Adobe  |  p. 415.832.2734
> <(415)%20832-2734>  |  c. 415.987.1918 <(415)%20987-1918>  |
> nurthen@adobe.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com>
> *Date: *Monday, April 9, 2018 at 1:53 PM
> *To: *ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Use cases for aria-relevant?
> *Resent-From: *<public-aria@w3.org>
> *Resent-Date: *Monday, April 9, 2018 at 1:53 PM
>
>
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> Does anyone know of any examples of aria-relevant being used in a helpful
> way in shipping software?
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> I have concerns about this attribute. The PFWG originally added it to ARIA
> because theoretically a screen reader should be informed about any changes
> and be able to receive hints on whether those changes are useful. What
> happens when a user leaves a chatroom and their name is removed from a
> sidebar list? It seemed bad to develop a standard where it wasn't even
> possible to have removals of content be presented.
>
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> The default, aria-relevant="additions text" is to speak content being
> added and text changes. This is by far the most useful value, and I'm not
> sure any other value has ever been used in real life in a successful way.
>
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> For any other value to be useful, we'd need to know that AT/Browser
> combinations have been tested and provide a useful experience. For example,
> is a user informed that the element was removed? Or will the screen reader
> just read the element the same way it would have if the element was added?
>
>
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> I'm pretty skeptical of the real-world value of this attribute and wonder
> if it's causing more harm than good, as authors may not understand what it
> does, and implementations may not all treat it the same way. (For example,
> Mac Chrome and Safari are not treating aria-relevant="text" exactly the
> same for live changes that insert an entire text node).
>
>
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> Right now, it's almost certain that if an author used this attribute it
> was because they were confused by its purpose and maybe thought it was a
> helpful bandaid for fixing a bug, and it probably wasn't.
>
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> Thoughts?
>
> Aaron
>