Re: Important concerns with naming calculation 'name from content' not being included in parent role accessible name.

+1 

Rich

Rich Schwerdtfeger




> On May 18, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> While the name calculation algorithm is conceptually simple, it would be a
> stretch to say that every conditional branch is clear. We've definitely been
> mining some gems over the course of the last year or so.
> 
> WRT naming, It would be illogical to say that children presentational is
> nonconsequential.
> 
> "2. f. Otherwise, if the current node's role allows name from content, or if
> the current node is referenced by aria-labelledby, aria-describedby, or is a
> native host language text alternative element:"
> 
> When a table or list is nested in a button, it acquires role presentation.
> So, when that table or list becomes the current node in the name
> calculation, it allows name from content.
> 
> That seems reasonably clear to me.
> 
> Matt
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:43 PM
> To: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>; 'James Nurthen'
> <james.nurthen@oracle.com>; 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>;
> aleventhal@google.com; 'Dominic Mazzoni' <dmazzoni@google.com>; 'Marco Zehe'
> <marco.zehe@gmail.com>; 'Rich Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com>; 'david
> bolter' <david.bolter@gmail.com>; 'Alexander Surkov' <asurkov@mozilla.com>;
> 'James Craig' <jcraig@apple.com>
> Subject: RE: Important concerns with naming calculation 'name from content'
> not being included in parent role accessible name.
> 
> Thanks,
> That makes sense to me as well.
> 
> At present however the accessible name of the tab is null (""), and there is
> nothing conveyed in the accessibility tree as the name for the tab in
> Firefox regardless.
> 
> So are we all in agreement then, that if children presentational is true on
> a specific role, then it doesn't matter if name from content is missing from
> a child construct role?
> 
> Is this actually clearly conveyed in the naming calculation?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bryan
> 
> 
> Bryan Garaventa
> Accessibility Fellow
> SSB BART Group, Inc.
> bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com
> 415.624.2709 (o)
> www.SSBBartGroup.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt King [mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:20 PM
> To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>; 'James Nurthen'
> <james.nurthen@oracle.com>; 'ARIA Working Group' <public-aria@w3.org>;
> aleventhal@google.com; 'Dominic Mazzoni' <dmazzoni@google.com>; 'Marco Zehe'
> <marco.zehe@gmail.com>; 'Rich Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com>; 'david
> bolter' <david.bolter@gmail.com>; 'Alexander Surkov' <asurkov@mozilla.com>;
> 'James Craig' <jcraig@apple.com>
> Subject: RE: Important concerns with naming calculation 'name from content'
> not being included in parent role accessible name.
> 
> Bryan,
> 
> Spec says tab has presentational true. Table is not a required owned element
> or required context role for tab. So, the table should disappear and the
> code you provided should use the text node of the table to calculate the
> name ... that is what the spec says.
> 
> Matt
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 11:16 AM
> To: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>; 'ARIA Working Group'
> <public-aria@w3.org>; 'Matt King' <a11ythinker@gmail.com>;
> aleventhal@google.com; 'Dominic Mazzoni' <dmazzoni@google.com>; 'Marco Zehe'
> <marco.zehe@gmail.com>; 'Rich Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com>; 'david
> bolter' <david.bolter@gmail.com>; 'Alexander Surkov' <asurkov@mozilla.com>;
> 'James Craig' <jcraig@apple.com>
> Subject: RE: Important concerns with naming calculation 'name from content'
> not being included in parent role accessible name.
> 
> In theory yes, but where does it say in the spec this is required?
> 
> This is a boiled down version of something that was used in one of our
> client websites that has been accessible for 3 years, but now is broken in
> Firefox because of this change.
> 
> We should not be breaking accessibility as we go forward.
> 
> 
> Bryan Garaventa
> Accessibility Fellow
> SSB BART Group, Inc.
> bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com
> 415.624.2709 (o)
> www.SSBBartGroup.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 11:12 AM
> To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>; 'ARIA Working Group'
> <public-aria@w3.org>; 'Matt King' <a11ythinker@gmail.com>;
> aleventhal@google.com; 'Dominic Mazzoni' <dmazzoni@google.com>; 'Marco Zehe'
> <marco.zehe@gmail.com>; 'Rich Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com>; 'david
> bolter' <david.bolter@gmail.com>; 'Alexander Surkov' <asurkov@mozilla.com>;
> 'James Craig' <jcraig@apple.com>
> Subject: RE: Important concerns with naming calculation 'name from content'
> not being included in parent role accessible name.
> 
> As this is a table for layout
> - it should have
> role=presentation on it. This
> would then work wouldn't it?
> Regards,
> james
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryan Garaventa
> [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbar
> tgroup.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017
> 11:08 AM
> To: ARIA Working Group
> <public-aria@w3.org>; Matt
> King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>;
> aleventhal@google.com; Dominic
> Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>;
> Marco Zehe
> <marco.zehe@gmail.com>; Rich
> Schwerdtfeger
> <richschwer@gmail.com>; david
> bolter
> <david.bolter@gmail.com>;
> Alexander Surkov
> <asurkov@mozilla.com>; James
> Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
> Subject: Important concerns
> with naming calculation 'name
> from content' not being
> included in parent role
> accessible name.
> 
> Hi,
> As most of us spoke of this
> last Monday in the APG call, I
> wanted to raise important
> concerns about the
> interpretation of the naming
> calculation, that specific
> roles that do not include
> 'name from content' are not
> being included in the parent
> role accessible name
> calculation.
> 
> It was pointed out that this
> change is already included in
> Firefox, and I have built a
> sample that demonstrates why
> this global interpretation is
> dangerous. The following
> markup structure is now
> totally inaccessible in
> Firefox as a result of this
> change.
> 
> <div tabindex="0" role="tab">
> 	<table>
> 		<tr>
> 			<td>
> Inbox </td>
> 			<td>
> (23) </td>
> 		</tr>
> 	</table>
> </div>
> 
> Such a global interpretation
> would not just apply to all
> explicitly applied roles but
> to all implicitly mapped ones
> as well, and it is impossible
> to predict how and in what
> order all developers will need
> to apply ARIA roles in order
> to ensure accessibility in the
> future and that doesn't take
> into account what people are
> already doing right now.
> 
> Aaron, can you please include
> the markup example here that
> you spoke of to demonstrate
> why this is a needed globally
> applied interpretation?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bryan
> 
> 
> 
> Bryan Garaventa
> Accessibility Fellow
> SSB BART Group, Inc.
> bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.c
> om
> 415.624.2709 (o)
> www.SSBBartGroup.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>