RE: Important concerns with naming calculation 'name from content' not being included in parent role accessible name.

Thanks,
I understand, and I’m not asking for a change in the spec.

Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
SSB BART Group, Inc.
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com
415.624.2709 (o)
www.SSBBartGroup.com

From: Aaron Leventhal [mailto:aleventhal@google.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 11:46 AM
To: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>; James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>; Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>; Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>; Marco Zehe <marco.zehe@gmail.com>; Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>; david bolter <david.bolter@gmail.com>; Alexander Surkov <asurkov@mozilla.com>; James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Important concerns with naming calculation 'name from content' not being included in parent role accessible name.

Also, this isn't a change. It's always been like this.

We can't change the spec now. Lots of pages have been written to what's been in there for a long time.

Aaron

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 2:36 PM Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com<mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com>> wrote:
Per the name calc algorithm, it should work if the table has role
presentation.

However, if the browser applied children presentational true before
calculating the name, then it should work without explicitly declaring role
presentation.

So, I think it should just work because role tab should make the table
disappear. If it doesn't work, I think that is a browser bug.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com<mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 11:12 AM
To: 'Bryan Garaventa' <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>; 'ARIA Working
Group' <public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>; 'Matt King' <a11ythinker@gmail.com<mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com>>;
aleventhal@google.com<mailto:aleventhal@google.com>; 'Dominic Mazzoni' <dmazzoni@google.com<mailto:dmazzoni@google.com>>; 'Marco Zehe'
<marco.zehe@gmail.com<mailto:marco.zehe@gmail.com>>; 'Rich Schwerdtfeger' <richschwer@gmail.com<mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>; 'david
bolter' <david.bolter@gmail.com<mailto:david.bolter@gmail.com>>; 'Alexander Surkov' <asurkov@mozilla.com<mailto:asurkov@mozilla.com>>;
'James Craig' <jcraig@apple.com<mailto:jcraig@apple.com>>
Subject: RE: Important concerns with naming calculation 'name from content'
not being included in parent role accessible name.

As this is a table for layout
- it should have
role=presentation on it. This
would then work wouldn't it?
Regards,
james

-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Garaventa
[mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbar<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbar>
tgroup.com<http://tgroup.com>]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017
11:08 AM
To: ARIA Working Group
<public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>; Matt
King <a11ythinker@gmail.com<mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com>>;
aleventhal@google.com<mailto:aleventhal@google.com>; Dominic
Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com<mailto:dmazzoni@google.com>>;
Marco Zehe
<marco.zehe@gmail.com<mailto:marco.zehe@gmail.com>>; Rich
Schwerdtfeger
<richschwer@gmail.com<mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>>; david
bolter
<david.bolter@gmail.com<mailto:david.bolter@gmail.com>>;
Alexander Surkov
<asurkov@mozilla.com<mailto:asurkov@mozilla.com>>; James
Craig <jcraig@apple.com<mailto:jcraig@apple.com>>
Subject: Important concerns
with naming calculation 'name
from content' not being
included in parent role
accessible name.

Hi,
As most of us spoke of this
last Monday in the APG call, I
wanted to raise important
concerns about the
interpretation of the naming
calculation, that specific
roles that do not include
'name from content' are not
being included in the parent
role accessible name
calculation.

It was pointed out that this
change is already included in
Firefox, and I have built a
sample that demonstrates why
this global interpretation is
dangerous. The following
markup structure is now
totally inaccessible in
Firefox as a result of this
change.

<div tabindex="0" role="tab">
        <table>
                <tr>
                        <td>
Inbox </td>
                        <td>
(23) </td>
                </tr>
        </table>
</div>

Such a global interpretation
would not just apply to all
explicitly applied roles but
to all implicitly mapped ones
as well, and it is impossible
to predict how and in what
order all developers will need
to apply ARIA roles in order
to ensure accessibility in the
future and that doesn't take
into account what people are
already doing right now.

Aaron, can you please include
the markup example here that
you spoke of to demonstrate
why this is a needed globally
applied interpretation?

Thanks,
Bryan



Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
SSB BART Group, Inc.
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.c<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.c>
om
415.624.2709<tel:(415)%20624-2709> (o)
www.SSBBartGroup.com<http://www.SSBBartGroup.com>