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[AAPI] Minutes UAI TF Meeting, Tuesday 31 May 2016

From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 16:44:59 -0400
To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Cc: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Message-ID: <ab1112c5-25a5-e2f7-14bc-f8ed11d12b0a@igalia.com>
URL: https://www.w3.org/2016/05/31-aapi-minutes.html

Plain text follows:

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

   Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

31 May 2016

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/05/31-aapi-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, cyns

   Regrets
          Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa

   Chair
          Joseph_Scheuhammer

   Scribe
          joanie

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Add group
            position interface to ATK/AT-SPI.
         2. [5]ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Investigate/create minimal
            javascript at-spi2 listener for automating 1.1 tests.
         3. [6]ACTION-1695 (Joseph/Cynthia) UIA mapping of
            aria-keyshortcuts (pending review).
         4. [7]ACTION-1696/ACTION-1697 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI and IA2
            mappings of aria-keyshortcuts
         5. [8]ACTION-1698 (James) AXAPI mapping of
            aria-keyshortcuts -- reassign to Joanie?
         6. [9]ACTION-1706 (Cynthia) Statement regarding
            deprecation of UIA Express.
         7. [10]Triage actions:
            https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23 (start
            with ACTION-1707)
     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     * [12]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <clown> agenda: this

   <scribe> scribe: joanie

ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Add group position interface
to ATK/AT-SPI.

   JD: Thanks for the reminder. Haven't gotten to it.

   JS: Joanie wants me to keep bringing this up.

ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Investigate/create minimal javascript at-spi2
listener for automating 1.1 tests.

   JS: This is another such action item.

   JD: Same situation. But it's getting there.

   <clown> action-1533

   <trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate and
   possibly create a minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener
   with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests. -- due 2016-05-24 --
   OPEN

   <trackbot> [13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533

     [13] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533

   CS: Is this different from the Web Driver stuff?

   <cyns>
   [14]https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2016/05/25/accessibilit
   y-test-automation/

     [14]
https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2016/05/25/accessibility-test-automation/

   JD: It didn't start out the same, but it now is the same.

   CS + JS: Is this action defunct?

   CS: It sounds like it needs a new name then.

   JD: Agreed.

   JS: Suggestions?

   JD: Whatever you want is fine. I'll catch up on scribing. :)

   JS + CS: (Discuss new names/summary for Joanie's action item.)

   <clown> Proposed new name: Use Webdriver automated accessibilty
   testing framework for testing ARIA

   <clown> Implement Webdriver automated accessibilty testing
   framework for testing ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI

   JD: Perfect!
   ... Thank you.

   CS: I think we need other actions similar to IA2 and Mac.
   ... Which may or may not be assigned to Joanie.
   ... They're not assigned to me.
   ... I remember Joanie volunteering for that, but she sounds
   busy.

   JS: I can see her doing WebKit stuff.

   JD: I'm feeling busy, yes.
   ... If I had more time, then I'd be happy to tackle IA2 and
   AXAPI.

   CS: Candidates?

   JD: Maybe James Teh. Though he might be busy. I dunno.

   CS: Would this be something an intern could do after you
   (joanie) do the implementation on your platform?

   JD: Maybe....

   CS: Perhaps one of Jon's stufents?

   JD: I like the idea. But if Jon's students lack CS skills....
   Perhaps Jon could collaborate with his University's CS
   department.

   CS: Maybe someone at UW could do it. I know someone.
   ... You could assign me a recruiting action.

   JS: I've created that action for you Cynthia.
   ... I saw some emails somewhere about Rich giving Jon access to
   AccProbe source.

   JD: I think that was on the public-aria list.

   JS: I use AccProbe for manual testing.
   ... I ran into a weird thing... AccProbe requires Java.

   CS: I ran into that too, but couldn't get it working.

   JS: I finally get it worked out.

   CS: I haven't.

   JS: AccProbe is actually a plugin for Eclipse.

   JD: This sounds familiar. I think I ran into this and got it
   running.

   CS: Is it still in active development?

   JS: No.
   ... The last time I got it, the date was really old.
   ... Like 2011. And the date hasn't changed as far as I know.

   CS: There's also aViewer from Paciello Group.

   <clown>
   [15]https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2013/03/aviewer-2013/

     [15] https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2013/03/aviewer-2013/

   <clown>
   [16]http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yweb/util/accpr
   obe/

     [16] http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yweb/util/accprobe/

   CS: Maybe we could get someone from Paciello Group to work on
   this.

   +1 to that idea

   CS: Steve does a lot of manual testing too, and would probably
   appreciate automated tools.

   JS: I would appreciate an automated tool for ATK/AT-SPI2.
   ... I'll start with the blog post.

   CS: It's written in C#.
   ... But you could use whatever language though.

   JD: Python!
   ... Anyway, I'll force some time into my schedule to look at
   this during this week.

ACTION-1695 (Joseph/Cynthia) UIA mapping of aria-keyshortcuts
(pending review).

   <clown> action-1695?

   <trackbot> action-1695 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose UIA
   mapping for aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-03-08 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1695

     [17] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1695

   JS: Last week, you (Cynthia) had a proposal for mapping
   aria-keyshortcuts.
   ... I've done the edits.

   <clown>
   [18]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
   riaKeyshortcuts

     [18]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaKeyshortcuts

   JS: I marked it PENDINGREVIEW.
   ... The link is above.

   CS: Looks good to me.

   JS: I'll close the action item then.

   CS: Minor editorial nit: It doesn't have periods normally.

   JS: Next time I'm in there, I'll change that.
   ... For the other platforms, I put in TBD.

ACTION-1696/ACTION-1697 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI and IA2 mappings of
aria-keyshortcuts

   <clown> action-1696

   <trackbot> action-1696 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI
   mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696

     [19] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696

   <clown> action-1697

   <trackbot> action-1697 -- Alexander Surkov to Propose MSAA+IA2
   mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1697

     [20] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1697

   JD: The IA2 one was provided by James Teh on one of the mailing
   lists.
   ... I had emailed the IA2 list to see if we could agree on a
   mapping.
   ... And James responded that he already had a property that ATK
   and AT-SPI2 lacked.

   <clown>
   [21]https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-i
   a2/2016-February/002008.html

     [21]
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2016-February/002008.html

   JS: Reads from James' reply (at the above link)

   <clown>
   [22]https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd
   318482%28v=vs.85%29.aspx?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396

     [22]
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd318482%28v=vs.85%29.aspx?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396

   JS: James suggested the MSAA accKeyboardShortcut property.

   CS: I think that's the equivalent of what we're doing in UIA.
   ... I'm 80% sure this is the same thing as what I suggested.
   ... It seems right, though.

   JS: I'm putting a note in the IA2 action.

   <clown> "accKeyboardShortcut"

   CS: Instead of using the methods, you would support the
   property.

   JS: I'll look in the Core AAM to see if there's precedent.

   CS: I think we use the shorter form (KeyboardShortcut).

   <cyns>
   [23]https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd
   318540(v=vs.85).aspx

     [23]
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd318540(v=vs.85).aspx

   JS: I will assign this action to me as I can actually make the
   edit now.

   JD: This is still on my to-do list. I should probably talk to
   Surkov.
   ... The problem is that keyboard shortcuts, mnemonics, etc. are
   exposed via the Action interface.
   ... But the Action interface actions are activatable, have
   names, etc.

   JS: Do you want a new due date?

   JD: One week please.

ACTION-1698 (James) AXAPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts -- reassign to
Joanie?

   <clown> action-1698?

   <trackbot> action-1698 -- James Craig to Propose AXAPI mapping
   of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1698

     [24] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1698

   JS: Last week I created a bunch of actions for keyshortcuts.
   ... And Rich says to me, maybe Joanie could do that one.
   ... Because she's already working on WebKit including Safari.

   JD: Sure.
   ... Give me a week. I will email Surkov today.

ACTION-1706 (Cynthia) Statement regarding deprecation of UIA Express.

   <clown> action-1706?

   <trackbot> action-1706 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compose a statement
   regarding the "deprecation" of uia express mappings in the
   core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec. -- due
   2016-03-01 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1706

     [25] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1706

   JS: I wanted to touch base and ask Cynthia what the status is.
   ... We removed the UIA Express column from the Core AAM.
   ... And you were going to write a statement.
   ... And then Alex Surkov wanted it added back.

   CS: I emailed Alex and have not heard back.
   ... So for now, I don't think we should put it back.

   JS: Then I would like a statement from you.

   CS: When is it needed?

   JS: It's not critical, but it needs to be in there before we go
   to CR.

   CS: When is our CR date?

   JS: I don't know. But it coincides with ARIA's CR date.
   ... First we have pseudo last call for ARIA followed by
   testing.

   CS: I set the due date to next week.

   JS: It is not critical, but will be nice to have.
   ... It shouldn't be too much to write.

   CS: Agreed. It might just be a sentence or two.

Triage actions: [26]https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
(start with ACTION-1707)

     [26] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23

   JS: I saw one in there, which I was trying to figure out what
   it meant.

   action-1707

   <trackbot> action-1707 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Edit the AXAPI
   mapping table for roles presentation and none to specify that
   when applied to tables and lists, the children are exposed as
   AXStaticText accessibles. -- due 2015-09-01 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1707

     [27] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1707

   JD: This looks like the same thing we did on my platform.
   ... The treat-it-like-a-div stuff.

   <clown>
   [28]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#r
   ole-map-presentation

     [28]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation

   JD: But in AXAPI, it's StaticTextRole.

   JS: (Reads ATK text from above URL)
   ... (Reads UIA and IA2 text from above URL)
   ... (Reads his notes from the action)

   JD: Aha, this sounds familiar now.
   ... I remember having this conversation with Chris when I made
   the changes for my platform.
   ... Because I think I did them for the Mac too.
   ... And I remember having this conversation about list items
   and table cells being different.

   [29]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133133

     [29] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133133

   JD: So I didn't implement the change on the Mac; I tested and
   questioned what I found.
   ... And in comment 5 of the bug, there's my findings quoted and
   Chris indicating there are not GroupRole children for the list
   items.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 31 May 2016 20:45:38 UTC

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