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Re: aria-ISSUE-1028 (SeparatorNotWidget): Separator is a structure but the description says it can be interactive [ARIA 1.1]

From: Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 19:43:29 -0500
Cc: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Message-Id: <D3E1FC18-8FE5-4809-93DE-CAAD6CB76205@gmail.com>
To: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
Having another splitter role is wasteful. We already have a separator that can be used for that purpose and it has been. 

This is an unnecessary last minute addition that is a late unfiled issue. We are trying to lock ARIA down. Adding new  role that we have to map does not help that. I am also not convinced that this is a show stopper for authoring practices.

Let’s get some discipline so that we can get this thing shut down. 

Matt, I have said multiple times that we are trying to lock this down in June. Asking to add yet another role past the middle of May that we have to create mappings for is ridiculous AND no issue was never filed on it.  It also does not fall under identified serious web problems and it does not fill an essential gap in HTML5 mappings. 

This should be logged as a new ARIA 2.0 issue and we should decide about this in an ARIA 1.2  … no different than aria-valuestep. We asked James Craig to hold off and you should not be an exception. The group still need to review the entire spec. 

I will be back Monday. Janina is chairing tomorrow. 

Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger




> On May 18, 2016, at 5:19 PM, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com> wrote:
> 
> In the message below, I mean the addition of a *splitter* role.
> Apologies for the noise/spam.
> 
> --joanie
> 
> On 05/18/2016 06:10 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>> Hey Matt, all.
>> 
>> I'm not opposed to the addition of a "separator" role and the problem
>> you outline here does indeed sound like a problem. That said, to play
>> devil's advocate, do we need a new role to solve this?
>> 
>> If authors MUST make interactive separators keyboard focusable via
>> setting the tabindex, and the Core AAM maps focusable separators to each
>> platform's splitter role, then it should be operable with screen
>> readers. Furthermore, existing web apps which use role separator
>> combined with a tabindex could become screen-reader-operable without the
>> author having to change anything.
>> 
>> --joanie
>> 
>> On 05/18/2016 04:45 PM, Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working
>> Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>> aria-ISSUE-1028 (SeparatorNotWidget): Separator is a structure but the description says it can be interactive [ARIA 1.1]
>>> 
>>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1028
>>> 
>>> Raised by: Matthew King
>>> On product: ARIA 1.1
>>> 
>>> The separator role is a structure. Screen readers render elements with role separator in the same way that the HTML HR element is rendered. Thus, screen readers regard separators as static, not interactive. 
>>> 
>>> Yet, the description of the separator role says that a separator may be a movable splitter that divides parts of a window. So, the APG Window splitter pattern states that the separator role should be used for an interactive window splitter.
>>> 
>>> Obviously, If you make a focusable, interactive window splitter and give it the separator role, it will not be operable with screen readers because they will not recognize a separator as interactive and neding to consume keys like arrows, home, and end.
>>> 
>>> The superclass of separator can not be change to be a widget without breaking its ability to serve as an equivalent to HR. the widget role can not be added as a second superclass because there would not be a way for assistive technologies to discern if the element is a separator or a splitter.
>>> 
>>> Proposal:
>>> 1. Remove language about interaction from the separator role.
>>> 2. Add a splitter role that is a widget.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 


Received on Thursday, 19 May 2016 00:43:58 UTC

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