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Re: Conflicting inclusion/exclusion criteria for elements in the accessibility tree (Was: Re: [ARIA] Agenda: March 3, 2016 WAI-ARIA Working Group)

From: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 08:50:31 -0500
Joseph,

When doing a widget, it often makes sense to only have one element with
tabindex 0 at a time. That allows the user leave the widget using tab or
shift tab.  If you are using arrow keys to move within the widget, when you
handle an arrow key event, you switch the moved to element to tabindex 0
and the element you moved from to tabindex -1. The developer can call the
onfocus function on the moved to element as part of the key event handling.

I see deep menus done this way as well. This is a normal pattern and one of
the reasons CSS focus-within was needed for keyboard users - to get the
same behavior as CSS hover provides. So you can see CSS for menus that
hover affects the tabindex (and soon to be focus-within).

                                                              
     Regards,                                                 
                                                              
    Fred Esch                                                 
 Watson, IBM, W3C                                             
  Accessibility                                               
                                                              
 IBM Watson       Watson Release Management and Quality       
                                                              






From:	Joseph Scheuhammer <clown@alum.mit.edu>
To:	Amelia Bellamy-Royds <amelia.bellamy.royds@gmail.com>
Cc:	"White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, Fred
            Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, ARIA Working Group
            <public-aria@w3.org>, Richard Schwerdtfeger
            <richschwer@gmail.com>
Date:	03/15/2016 01:58 PM
Subject:	Re: Conflicting inclusion/exclusion criteria for elements in
            the accessibility tree (Was: Re: [ARIA] Agenda: March 3, 2016
            WAI-ARIA Working Group)



On 2016-03-15 1:52 PM, Amelia Bellamy-Royds wrote:
> If something has negative tabindex *and* aria-hidden="true", it should
> definitely not be in the tab order!

How does that work for a keyboard only user?  On the assumption that the
user can see it, wants to put focus on it, and the only way they can is
via TAB navigation ...?

--
;;;;joseph.

'Die Wahrheit ist Irgendwo da Draußen. Wieder.'
                  - C. Carter -




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<html><body><p>Joseph,<br><br>When doing a widget, it often makes sense to only have one element with tabindex 0 at a time. That allows the user leave the widget using tab or shift tab.  If you are using arrow keys to move within the widget, when you handle an arrow key event, you switch the moved to element to tabindex 0 and the element you moved from to tabindex -1. The developer can call the onfocus function on the moved to element as part of the key event handling.<br><br>I see deep menus done this way as well. This is a normal pattern and one of the reasons CSS focus-within was needed for keyboard users - to get the same behavior as CSS hover provides. So you can see CSS for menus that hover affects the tabindex (and soon to be focus-within). <br><br><br>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="473" colspan="2" valign="middle"><div align="center"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Regards, <br><br>Fred Esch <br>Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility</font></div></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="130" valign="middle"><img src="cid:1__=0ABBF5EBDFD893E38f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="163" height="23" alt="IBM Watson" align="bottom"></td><td width="342" valign="middle"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Watson Release Management and Quality </font></td></tr></table><br><br><img width="16" height="16" src="cid:2__=0ABBF5EBDFD893E38f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Joseph Scheuhammer ---03/15/2016 01:58:43 PM---On 2016-03-15 1:52 PM, Amelia Bellamy-Royds wrote: &gt; I"><font color="#424282">Joseph Scheuhammer ---03/15/2016 01:58:43 PM---On 2016-03-15 1:52 PM, Amelia Bellamy-Royds wrote: &gt; If something has negative tabindex *and* aria-h</font><br><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">From:        </font><font size="2">Joseph Scheuhammer &lt;clown@alum.mit.edu&gt;</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">To:        </font><font size="2">Amelia Bellamy-Royds &lt;amelia.bellamy.royds@gmail.com&gt;</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Cc:        </font><font size="2">&quot;White, Jason J&quot; &lt;jjwhite@ets.org&gt;, Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, ARIA Working Group &lt;public-aria@w3.org&gt;, Richard Schwerdtfeger &lt;richschwer@gmail.com&gt;</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Date:        </font><font size="2">03/15/2016 01:58 PM</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Subject:        </font><font size="2">Re: Conflicting inclusion/exclusion criteria for elements in the accessibility tree (Was: Re: [ARIA] Agenda: March 3, 2016 WAI-ARIA Working Group)</font><br><hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade style="color:#8091A5; "><br><br><br><tt>On 2016-03-15 1:52 PM, Amelia Bellamy-Royds wrote:<br>&gt; If something has negative tabindex *and* aria-hidden=&quot;true&quot;, it should <br>&gt; definitely not be in the tab order!<br><br>How does that work for a keyboard only user? &nbsp;On the assumption that the <br>user can see it, wants to put focus on it, and the only way they can is <br>via TAB navigation ...?<br><br>-- <br>;;;;joseph.<br><br>'Die Wahrheit ist Irgendwo da Draußen. Wieder.'<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;- C. Carter -<br><br></tt><br><br><BR>
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Received on Wednesday, 16 March 2016 13:53:50 UTC

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