- From: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
- Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:37:42 -0700
- To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, "public-aria-admin@w3.org" <public-aria-admin@w3.org>
- Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <b4be84c0-9968-1fc1-106a-af9d78aaafd6@oracle.com>
The caveats need to be created before changing this. As written today it cannot work. On 6/20/2016 12:36 PM, Bryan Garaventa wrote: > > “Children are presentational cannot work for treeitem, menuitem, > menuitemcheckbox and menuitemradio. > > These roles are specifically required to have child elements in order > to create trees and menus as I detailed in another mail. We cannot add > children are presentational to them as it will break every single tree > and menu implementation.” > > This is true in that menuitems can have child menuitems, and treeitems > can have child treeitems, however leaving this wide open is still a > problem because menuitems cannot have child regions, sliders, > checkboxes, buttons, headings, lists, and so on. The same is true with > treeitem roles. > > It cannot be left wide open like this. So there is still a need to > make these children presentational with caveats > > Bryan Garaventa > > Accessibility Fellow > > SSB BART Group, Inc. > > bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com > > 415.624.2709 (o) > > www.SSBBartGroup.com > > *From:*James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com] > *Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2016 12:07 PM > *To:* public-aria-admin@w3.org > *Subject:* Re: 7-day CfC: notes on option, treeitem, and spinbutton > about children presentational - closes 15 June > > Yes. > > Children are presentational cannot work for treeitem, menuitem, > menuitemcheckbox and menuitemradio. > > These roles are specifically required to have child elements in order > to create trees and menus as I detailed in another mail. We cannot add > children are presentational to them as it will break every single tree > and menu implementation. > > Regards, > > James > > On 6/20/2016 12:01 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > > I agree with James on the exception for spinbuttons for touch > screen devices. > > This went out for CFC last week while I was out on vacation. Other > than spinbutton are there any other objections to the rest of this > proposal? > > Rich > > On Jun 18, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Birkir Gunnarsson > <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com > <mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>> wrote: > > "I do not believe interactive widget vs composite widget is > the heart > of the issue. For me, the issue is how difficult is it for > developers > create structures > with ARIA markup? For authors sake, I would not like to see a > proliferation of roles because the structure content is > presentational > vs interactive content > vs complex widget. Hopefully, an author could use a single > recognizable logical role independent of the type of content > in the > structure. > " > For me ARIA is primarily for users, not authors. > That being said, I am fine with allowing the plus and minus > buttons as > the only non-presentational elements allowed for > role="spinbutton". > I am not on board with allowing any other elements. > > I am not on board allowing non-presentational elements on the > option role. > This is the same role used for <option> elements, and users, > through > years of interaction with select / option elemetns, have come to > expect them to be presentational. > > > > On 6/18/16, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com > <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>> wrote: > > Sorry I'm a couple days late responding to this. > > Concerns with making "spinbutton" children presentational: > I don't think spinbutton's children should be > presentational until there is > a solution for the ARIA's coverage gap wrt operability. As > an example, there > is no good way to make custom sliders accessible on touch > screen devices > because there is no way to trigger the increment/decrement > events other than > through de facto keypress events (this workaround is not > sustainable or > recommended for touch screen interfaces). If the WG makes > spinbutton's > children presentational, the same problem will apply. > Author's are currently > able to make spinbuttons accessible by using descendant > stepper buttons that > are individually operable. (Note: The native stepper > buttons on macOS and in > WebKit are implemented this way.) > > > > On Jun 9, 2016, at 6:04 PM, Michael Cooper > <cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org>> wrote: > This is a Call for Consensus (CfC) to the Accessible > Rich Internet > Applications (ARIA) Working Group regarding the > following resolution of > the ARIA Working group: > > Add editorial note to option, treeitem, and spinbutton > roles that their > "children are presentational" status is provisional > Background > This was approved by the participants of the 9 June > 2016 teleconference, > and further context is available in the minutes: > > https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02 > <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02>Note > this > resolution does not close discussion on the issue of > whether these roles > ultimately should have the children presentational > restriction, or whether > further engineering is needed, and if so in what time > frame. This edit > supports wider review of the topic. > Action > This CfC is now open for objection, comment, as well > as statements of > support via email. Silence will be interpreted as > support, though messages > of support are certainly welcome. > If you object to this proposal, or have comments > concerning it, please > respond by replying on list to this message no later > than 23:59 (midnight) > Boston Time, Wednesday, 15 June 2016. For objections > only, please copy the > main <mailto:aria@w3.org>aria@w3.org > <mailto:aria@w3.org><mailto:aria@w3.org> list to allow > technical discussion of the objection to happen there. > Process > This CfC is conducted per the ARIA WG decision policy: > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy > <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy> > I am issuing this CfC as acting chair, but Rich will > record the formal > ratification if passed. > Michael > > > > -- > Birkir Gunnarsson, CPACC > Senior Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems > 2121 Cooperative Way, Suite 210 > Herndon, VA, 20171 > > Ph: (919) 607-27 53 > Twitter: @birkir_gun > > -- > Regards, James > > Oracle <http://www.oracle.com> > James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility > Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <tel:+1%20650%20506%206781> | Mobile: +1 415 > 987 1918 <tel:+1%20415%20987%201918> | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com > <mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com> > OracleCorporate Architecture > 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood Cty, CA 94065 > Green Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/commitment>Oracle is committed to > developing practices and products that help protect the environment > -- Regards, James Oracle <http://www.oracle.com> James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <tel:+1%20650%20506%206781> | Mobile: +1 415 987 1918 <tel:+1%20415%20987%201918> | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com <sip:james.nurthen@oracle.com> Oracle Corporate Architecture 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood Cty, CA 94065 Green Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment
Received on Monday, 20 June 2016 19:38:20 UTC