RE: Children are Presentational (again) - new information

Why do tree nodes have to be children of treeitem notes?

What about:

<ul role=”tree”>

<li role=”presentation”>

  <a href=”#” id=”t1” role=”treeitem” aria-expanded=”false” aria-controls=”treenode1”>Treeitem 1</a>

<ul id=”treeitem1” role=”group” aria-labelledby=”t1”>

<li role=”presentation”>

  <span role=”treeitem” aria-level=”2”>Treenode item 1</span>

</li>

<li role=”presentation”>

  <a href=”#”> tabindex=”-1” role=”treeitem” aria-level=”2”>Treenode item 2</a>

</li>

</ul> <!—tree node -->

</li>

…

<ul> <!—tree -->

 

Aria-owns can be used on the tree and the group nodes representing tree nodes.

Aria-controls establishes a relationship, but it is strictly speaking not necessary, because the navigation is controlled via Javascript.

The controls/aria-labelledby relationship is used in, and works well with, tabs.

The first tree node is focusable.

-B

 

From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 11:50 AM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>; public-aria@w3.org
Subject: Re: Children are Presentational (again) - new information

 

Bryan,

Can you please explain how you would create a hierarchical tree if treeitem only allows presentational children.

This is the definition of presentational children

"The DOM descendants are presentational.  <https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-wai-aria-1.1-20160317/#dfn-user-agent> User agents should not expose descendants of this  <https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-wai-aria-1.1-20160317/#dfn-element> element through the platform  <https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-wai-aria-1.1-20160317/#dfn-accessibility-api> accessibility API. If  <https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-wai-aria-1.1-20160317/#dfn-user-agent> user agents do not hide the descendant nodes, some information may be read twice."

So taking this, if my treeitem has other treeitems as children (completely normal in a tree) a useragent should not expose those descendents? This would break every tree.

Regards,

James





 

On 6/13/2016 12:00 AM, Bryan Garaventa wrote:

So if children are not presentational for widgets that are not logical children in these cases, what are you proposing to happen?

 

E.G If you allow some based on this logic, what about the following?

 

<ul role=”menu”>

<li role=”menuitem” tabindex=”0”>

<a href=”http://whatever.com”>My help page</a>

<ul role=”region” aria-label=”Personal Options”>

<li role=”presentation”>

<h2> Options </h2>

<input type=”text” value=”Bryan Garaventa” title=”Full name”>

<button> Edit </button>

</li>

</ul>

</li>

</ul>

 

I see developers doing stupid things like this every day, and it doesn’t help that the spec is so ambiguous that it actually does not state that this type of thing is not allowed, and it results in totally unusable and inaccessible software.

 

As I mentioned to Fred, simply not saying that children are presentational for these roles will not solve this problem, because these are not composite widgets according to the spec.

 

 

 

Bryan Garaventa

Accessibility Fellow

SSB BART Group, Inc.

bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> 

415.624.2709 (o)

www.SSBBartGroup.com <http://www.SSBBartGroup.com> 

 

From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 12:29 PM
To: public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org> 
Subject: Children are Presentational (again) - new information

 

I don't see how we can add children are presentational to

* treeitem
* menuitem
* menuitemcheckbox
* menuitemradio

treeitems are allowed to have other treeitems (and groups) as children. As such they cannot have children are presentational set.

In a similar way menuitem, menuitemcheckbox and menuitemradio can own menus, menubars and groups and should also cannot have children are presentational set.

-- 
Regards, James 

 <http://www.oracle.com> 
James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <tel:+1%20650%20506%206781>  | Mobile: +1 415 987 1918 <tel:+1%20415%20987%201918>  | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com <mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>  
Oracle Corporate Architecture
500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood Cty, CA 94065 
 <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment 

 

-- 
Regards, James 

 <http://www.oracle.com> 
James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <tel:+1%20650%20506%206781>  | Mobile: +1 415 987 1918 <tel:+1%20415%20987%201918>  | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com <mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>  
Oracle Corporate Architecture
500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood Cty, CA 94065 
 <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment