RE: Children are Presentational (again) - new information

I could pour some gasoline in the fire saying that even only ONE link in the <li> item is not a big problem, I’ve seen multiple links in tree items, too. And yes, this is bad design but the use case (interactive container) is valid, especially in touch screen scenarios.

Nevertheless, I will scrutinize the layout grid proposal for ARIA 1.1 and do some examples for focusable grid cells containing all allowed ARIA widget roles. However, I expect surprises in AT support for this.


-          Stefan

From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com]
Sent: Montag, 13. Juni 2016 09:00
To: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>; public-aria@w3.org
Subject: RE: Children are Presentational (again) - new information

So if children are not presentational for widgets that are not logical children in these cases, what are you proposing to happen?

E.G If you allow some based on this logic, what about the following?

<ul role=”menu”>
<li role=”menuitem” tabindex=”0”>
<a href=”http://whatever.com”>My help page</a>
<ul role=”region” aria-label=”Personal Options”>
<li role=”presentation”>
<h2> Options </h2>
<input type=”text” value=”Bryan Garaventa” title=”Full name”>
<button> Edit </button>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>

I see developers doing stupid things like this every day, and it doesn’t help that the spec is so ambiguous that it actually does not state that this type of thing is not allowed, and it results in totally unusable and inaccessible software.

As I mentioned to Fred, simply not saying that children are presentational for these roles will not solve this problem, because these are not composite widgets according to the spec.



Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
SSB BART Group, Inc.
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
415.624.2709 (o)
www.SSBBartGroup.com<http://www.SSBBartGroup.com>

From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 12:29 PM
To: public-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: Children are Presentational (again) - new information


I don't see how we can add children are presentational to

  *   treeitem
  *   menuitem
  *   menuitemcheckbox
  *   menuitemradio

treeitems are allowed to have other treeitems (and groups) as children. As such they cannot have children are presentational set.

In a similar way menuitem, menuitemcheckbox and menuitemradio can own menus, menubars and groups and should also cannot have children are presentational set.
--
Regards, James

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James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
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