[AAPI] Minutes UAI TF Meeting, Tuesday 7 June 2016

URL: https://www.w3.org/2016/06/07-aapi-minutes.html

Plain text follows:
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

   Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

07 Jun 2016

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/06/07-aapi-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa,
          Cynthia_Shelly

   Regrets
          Richard_Schwerdtfeger

   Chair
          Joseph_Scheuhammer

   Scribe
          joanie

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Add group
            position interface to ATK/AT-SPI.
         2. [5]ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Webdriver
            automated accessibilty testing framework for testing
            ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI.
         3. [6]ACTION-1697 (Joseph/Joanie) MSAA/IA2 mapping of
            aria-keyshortcuts (final review).
         4. [7]ACTION-1696 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI and IA2 mappings of
            aria-keyshortcuts.
         5. [8]ACTION-1698 (Joanie) AXAPI mapping of
            aria-keyshortcuts.
         6. [9]ACTION-1706 (Michael/Cynthia) Statement regarding
            deprecation of UIA Express.
         7. [10]ACTION-2065 (Joseph/Cynthia) Validation of
            aria-activedescendant.
         8. [11]ACTION-1739 (Joanie) Provide all the missing
            atk/at-spi2 interfaces.
     * [12]Summary of Action Items
     * [13]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> agenda: this

   <joanie> scribe: joanie

ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Add group position interface
to ATK/AT-SPI.

   JS: These are the two quick reminders.

   <clown> action-1409

   <trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress
   of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position,
   level, and other api be added
   ([14]https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due
   2016-04-07 -- OPEN

     [14] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453)

   <trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409

     [15] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409

   JD: Given that we are already exposing these properties and
   that this action item is not blocking any of our work, let's
   postpone it a couple of weeks so I can focus on the webdriver
   work.

ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Webdriver automated
accessibilty testing framework for testing ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI.

   <clown> action-1533?

   <trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Implement
   Webdriver automated accessibilty testing framework for testing
   ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI -- due 2016-05-24 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533

     [16] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533

   JS: This is your other periodic check-in.

   JD: I hope to start on this tomorrow. For real.

ACTION-1697 (Joseph/Joanie) MSAA/IA2 mapping of aria-keyshortcuts
(final review).

   <clown> action-1697

   <trackbot> action-1697 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose
   MSAA+IA2 mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-06-07 --
   CLOSED

   <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1697

     [17] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1697

   JS: This is the change for the MSAA/IA2 mapping for
   aria-keyshortcuts.
   ... We discussed this last week.
   ... I made the changes.

   <clown>
   [18]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
   riaKeyshortcuts

     [18]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaKeyshortcuts

   JS: I filled out the first ell.
   ... And I've already closed the action.
   ... But just to be sure, any objections?
   ... This is consistent with the other MSAA property names in
   the Core AAM.
   ... Hearing no objections, I'll keep this closed.

ACTION-1696 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI and IA2 mappings of
aria-keyshortcuts.

   <clown> action-1696

   <trackbot> action-1696 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI
   mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-06-07 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696

     [19] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696

   JS: This is to update the progress on aria-keyshortcuts for
   ATK/AT-SPI2.

   JD: I sent a couple of emails to Alex Surkov.
   ... And CCed Joseph.

   <clown> scribenick: clown

   JD: Reason I sent to Alex and Joseph, the IA2 mappings are
   coming from MSAA.
   ... There is not parallelism in this case with ATK
   ... There just in no good ATK mapping.
   ... We don't have the 'accXXX' property like MSAA does.
   ... Other place to map in through the Action Interface.
   ... But, that has the problem that, in this case, there is no
   action
   ... Orca should not be able to invoke the Action in this case.
   ... The other possibility is to put in an object attribute.
   ... But, I don't care, so I thought I would ask Alex, and
   whatever he approves of.
   ... He thought is was ok to use ATK Action.
   ... And, that AT shouldn't worry since the action is up to the
   author.
   ... I replied, but that is the problem: Orca can't tell which
   Actions are invokable, and which are not.
   ... If I invoke an aria-keyshortcuts action, then the user
   agent needs to simulate a keystroke action for that case.
   ... It's already exposed as an object attribute. The worst case
   scenario is that it is already done.
   ... Now, that I'm reading the spec close, I'm not sure what it
   really means.

   <joanie> scribe: joanie

   JD: It's correct that ATs should not be able to invoke the
   Action even by synthesizing keyboard events.

   <scribe> scribenick: clown

   CS: We are changing all these to a click, since that bubbles.

   JD: It's not clear to me that it's always a click.
   ... I also don't see that there can only be one. There might be
   multiple keystrokes.
   ... I don't see that it's limited to "activate". It might also
   be "focus".
   ... Use case: I am light sensitive. If the page is bright, it
   really bothers me.
   ... What if there is a keyboard shortcut that inverses the
   brightness.
   ... Invoking the action would be bad.

   CS: I'm looking more closesly, and we actually do not map
   aria-keyshortcuts to a click.
   ... I was thinking of something else.

   JD: Okay, I think the only thing the AT should do is pass the
   information to the user.

   CS: I think the idea is that this describes stuff defined in
   script, and the user agent does not handle it.
   ... So, aria-keyshorts is only valid if the author has written
   the script.

   JD: In that case, then the user agent should not simulate the
   key strokes.

   CS: I have always thought that it's not awful if the user agent
   handled it, but, right now, that's not how aria-keyshortcuts
   work.

   JD: I need something in the Action inteface that clearly
   indicates that the AT cannot invoke these kinds of actions.

   <joanie> scribe: joanie

   JS: For my part, I followed the discussion you had with Alex.
   ... I tend to agree with you, Joanie.
   ... Ideally, I think you need a property like MSAA/IA2 has.
   ... Everything else feels hacky to me.
   ... Failing that, a means to identify that the AtkAction is not
   invokable makes sense.
   ... Reading your discussion with Alex, it occurred to me that
   if they are just descriptive, could they be exposed as a
   description.

   CS: There is no string like in UIA and MSAA/IA2?

   JS: There's not in ATK/AT-SPI2.

   CS: Does Orca read descriptions by default, or does the user
   have to do something?

   JD: Orca presents descriptions automatically.

   CS: We don't automatically present it on the assumption that
   it's long.

   JD: The problem is that ATs should be able to provide the
   shortcut as the shortcut when asked for by the user and/or in
   accordance to user preferences.
   ... In order for ATs to be able to do that, ATs need to know
   definitively that something is a shortcut.
   ... For this reason, placing it in a description won't work.

   JS: If we make it a desktop app and Orca sees the action and
   invokes it, who does the actual work?

   JD: The app or toolkit. Usually the toolkit (e.g. Gtk+)

   JS: If we use AtkAction with a no-op value, is there a chance
   that down the line ATK will have an accKeyShortcuts property?

   JD: Anything is possible.

   JD + JS: (Discussion as to why this may or may not be doable)

   JS: What's the next step?

   JD: Alex needs to reply to Joanie and then we'll proceed.

   JS: Change the due date?

   JD: One week please.
   ... And it's already exposed via object attribute.

ACTION-1698 (Joanie) AXAPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts.

   JD: Not done yet

   <clown> action-1698

   <trackbot> action-1698 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose AXAPI
   mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-06-07 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1698

     [20] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1698

   JD: I am going to deal with that when I implement it in
   WebKitGtk.
   ... As a result, I need to know what the mappings are.
   ... Give me another week please.

ACTION-1706 (Michael/Cynthia) Statement regarding deprecation of UIA
Express.

   <clown> action-1706?

   <trackbot> action-1706 -- Michael Cooper to Compose a statement
   regarding the "deprecation" of uia express mappings in the
   core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec. -- due
   2016-06-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1706

     [21] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1706

   JS: I noticed, Cynthia, that you did something with the
   deprecation of UIA express and then assigned it to Michael.
   ... Did you mean to?

   CS: I set it to PENDINGREVIEW but wasn't sure what to do to
   cause it to be reviewed.

   JS: I'll assign it to me.

   CS: I doubt this will be controversial.

   <clown>
   [22]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/Action-1706/core-aam/core-aam.h
   tml#intro_aapi

     [22]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/Action-1706/core-aam/core-aam.html#intro_aapi

   JS: The URL is above.
   ... (Reads the sentence)

   <clown> The WAI-ARIA 1.0 User Agent Implementation Guide
   included mappings for UIA Express, also known as IAccessibleEx,
   which was implemented in Microsoft Internet Explorer 8.0 - 11.
   New implementations are strongly encouraged to use User
   Interface Automation instead.

   JS: I'm okay with that.
   ... Is there anything else?

   CS: Just that.

   JS: Thoughts?

   BG: Not really.

   CS: I didn't expect it to be controversial.
   ... I've not heard back from Alex Surkov.

   JS: I'll find time to pull it in or merge it in.
   ... It currently says you can merge it.

ACTION-2065 (Joseph/Cynthia) Validation of aria-activedescendant.

ACTION-1739 (Joanie) Provide all the missing atk/at-spi2 interfaces.

   action-1739

   <trackbot> action-1739 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Provide all the
   missing atk/at-spi2 interfaces for joseph -- due 2015-11-17 --
   OPEN

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1739

     [23] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1739

   JD: I've added a list in the comment of the action.

   JS: I'll assign this to myself and ask you, Joanie, any
   questions that come up.
   ... I don't know what will happen since none of this was in the
   spec up to this point.
   ... In other words, in terms of testing.

   JD: For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure what I wrote is what
   Gecko already does.
   ... So I don't think I'm in danger of making any user agent
   non-compliant.
   ... Though it might(?) require testing.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

Received on Tuesday, 7 June 2016 20:22:27 UTC