- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 16:21:50 -0400
- To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
- Cc: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
URL: https://www.w3.org/2016/06/07-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
07 Jun 2016
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2016/06/07-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa,
Cynthia_Shelly
Regrets
Richard_Schwerdtfeger
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Add group
position interface to ATK/AT-SPI.
2. [5]ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Webdriver
automated accessibilty testing framework for testing
ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI.
3. [6]ACTION-1697 (Joseph/Joanie) MSAA/IA2 mapping of
aria-keyshortcuts (final review).
4. [7]ACTION-1696 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI and IA2 mappings of
aria-keyshortcuts.
5. [8]ACTION-1698 (Joanie) AXAPI mapping of
aria-keyshortcuts.
6. [9]ACTION-1706 (Michael/Cynthia) Statement regarding
deprecation of UIA Express.
7. [10]ACTION-2065 (Joseph/Cynthia) Validation of
aria-activedescendant.
8. [11]ACTION-1739 (Joanie) Provide all the missing
atk/at-spi2 interfaces.
* [12]Summary of Action Items
* [13]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> agenda: this
<joanie> scribe: joanie
ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Add group position interface
to ATK/AT-SPI.
JS: These are the two quick reminders.
<clown> action-1409
<trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress
of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position,
level, and other api be added
([14]https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due
2016-04-07 -- OPEN
[14] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453)
<trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409
[15] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409
JD: Given that we are already exposing these properties and
that this action item is not blocking any of our work, let's
postpone it a couple of weeks so I can focus on the webdriver
work.
ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Periodic checkin: Webdriver automated
accessibilty testing framework for testing ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI.
<clown> action-1533?
<trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Implement
Webdriver automated accessibilty testing framework for testing
ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI -- due 2016-05-24 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533
[16] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533
JS: This is your other periodic check-in.
JD: I hope to start on this tomorrow. For real.
ACTION-1697 (Joseph/Joanie) MSAA/IA2 mapping of aria-keyshortcuts
(final review).
<clown> action-1697
<trackbot> action-1697 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose
MSAA+IA2 mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-06-07 --
CLOSED
<trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1697
[17] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1697
JS: This is the change for the MSAA/IA2 mapping for
aria-keyshortcuts.
... We discussed this last week.
... I made the changes.
<clown>
[18]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
riaKeyshortcuts
[18]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaKeyshortcuts
JS: I filled out the first ell.
... And I've already closed the action.
... But just to be sure, any objections?
... This is consistent with the other MSAA property names in
the Core AAM.
... Hearing no objections, I'll keep this closed.
ACTION-1696 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI and IA2 mappings of
aria-keyshortcuts.
<clown> action-1696
<trackbot> action-1696 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI
mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-06-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696
[19] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696
JS: This is to update the progress on aria-keyshortcuts for
ATK/AT-SPI2.
JD: I sent a couple of emails to Alex Surkov.
... And CCed Joseph.
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: Reason I sent to Alex and Joseph, the IA2 mappings are
coming from MSAA.
... There is not parallelism in this case with ATK
... There just in no good ATK mapping.
... We don't have the 'accXXX' property like MSAA does.
... Other place to map in through the Action Interface.
... But, that has the problem that, in this case, there is no
action
... Orca should not be able to invoke the Action in this case.
... The other possibility is to put in an object attribute.
... But, I don't care, so I thought I would ask Alex, and
whatever he approves of.
... He thought is was ok to use ATK Action.
... And, that AT shouldn't worry since the action is up to the
author.
... I replied, but that is the problem: Orca can't tell which
Actions are invokable, and which are not.
... If I invoke an aria-keyshortcuts action, then the user
agent needs to simulate a keystroke action for that case.
... It's already exposed as an object attribute. The worst case
scenario is that it is already done.
... Now, that I'm reading the spec close, I'm not sure what it
really means.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
JD: It's correct that ATs should not be able to invoke the
Action even by synthesizing keyboard events.
<scribe> scribenick: clown
CS: We are changing all these to a click, since that bubbles.
JD: It's not clear to me that it's always a click.
... I also don't see that there can only be one. There might be
multiple keystrokes.
... I don't see that it's limited to "activate". It might also
be "focus".
... Use case: I am light sensitive. If the page is bright, it
really bothers me.
... What if there is a keyboard shortcut that inverses the
brightness.
... Invoking the action would be bad.
CS: I'm looking more closesly, and we actually do not map
aria-keyshortcuts to a click.
... I was thinking of something else.
JD: Okay, I think the only thing the AT should do is pass the
information to the user.
CS: I think the idea is that this describes stuff defined in
script, and the user agent does not handle it.
... So, aria-keyshorts is only valid if the author has written
the script.
JD: In that case, then the user agent should not simulate the
key strokes.
CS: I have always thought that it's not awful if the user agent
handled it, but, right now, that's not how aria-keyshortcuts
work.
JD: I need something in the Action inteface that clearly
indicates that the AT cannot invoke these kinds of actions.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
JS: For my part, I followed the discussion you had with Alex.
... I tend to agree with you, Joanie.
... Ideally, I think you need a property like MSAA/IA2 has.
... Everything else feels hacky to me.
... Failing that, a means to identify that the AtkAction is not
invokable makes sense.
... Reading your discussion with Alex, it occurred to me that
if they are just descriptive, could they be exposed as a
description.
CS: There is no string like in UIA and MSAA/IA2?
JS: There's not in ATK/AT-SPI2.
CS: Does Orca read descriptions by default, or does the user
have to do something?
JD: Orca presents descriptions automatically.
CS: We don't automatically present it on the assumption that
it's long.
JD: The problem is that ATs should be able to provide the
shortcut as the shortcut when asked for by the user and/or in
accordance to user preferences.
... In order for ATs to be able to do that, ATs need to know
definitively that something is a shortcut.
... For this reason, placing it in a description won't work.
JS: If we make it a desktop app and Orca sees the action and
invokes it, who does the actual work?
JD: The app or toolkit. Usually the toolkit (e.g. Gtk+)
JS: If we use AtkAction with a no-op value, is there a chance
that down the line ATK will have an accKeyShortcuts property?
JD: Anything is possible.
JD + JS: (Discussion as to why this may or may not be doable)
JS: What's the next step?
JD: Alex needs to reply to Joanie and then we'll proceed.
JS: Change the due date?
JD: One week please.
... And it's already exposed via object attribute.
ACTION-1698 (Joanie) AXAPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts.
JD: Not done yet
<clown> action-1698
<trackbot> action-1698 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose AXAPI
mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2016-06-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1698
[20] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1698
JD: I am going to deal with that when I implement it in
WebKitGtk.
... As a result, I need to know what the mappings are.
... Give me another week please.
ACTION-1706 (Michael/Cynthia) Statement regarding deprecation of UIA
Express.
<clown> action-1706?
<trackbot> action-1706 -- Michael Cooper to Compose a statement
regarding the "deprecation" of uia express mappings in the
core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec. -- due
2016-06-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1706
[21] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1706
JS: I noticed, Cynthia, that you did something with the
deprecation of UIA express and then assigned it to Michael.
... Did you mean to?
CS: I set it to PENDINGREVIEW but wasn't sure what to do to
cause it to be reviewed.
JS: I'll assign it to me.
CS: I doubt this will be controversial.
<clown>
[22]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/Action-1706/core-aam/core-aam.h
tml#intro_aapi
[22]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/Action-1706/core-aam/core-aam.html#intro_aapi
JS: The URL is above.
... (Reads the sentence)
<clown> The WAI-ARIA 1.0 User Agent Implementation Guide
included mappings for UIA Express, also known as IAccessibleEx,
which was implemented in Microsoft Internet Explorer 8.0 - 11.
New implementations are strongly encouraged to use User
Interface Automation instead.
JS: I'm okay with that.
... Is there anything else?
CS: Just that.
JS: Thoughts?
BG: Not really.
CS: I didn't expect it to be controversial.
... I've not heard back from Alex Surkov.
JS: I'll find time to pull it in or merge it in.
... It currently says you can merge it.
ACTION-2065 (Joseph/Cynthia) Validation of aria-activedescendant.
ACTION-1739 (Joanie) Provide all the missing atk/at-spi2 interfaces.
action-1739
<trackbot> action-1739 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Provide all the
missing atk/at-spi2 interfaces for joseph -- due 2015-11-17 --
OPEN
<trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1739
[23] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1739
JD: I've added a list in the comment of the action.
JS: I'll assign this to myself and ask you, Joanie, any
questions that come up.
... I don't know what will happen since none of this was in the
spec up to this point.
... In other words, in terms of testing.
JD: For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure what I wrote is what
Gecko already does.
... So I don't think I'm in danger of making any user agent
non-compliant.
... Though it might(?) require testing.
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
Received on Tuesday, 7 June 2016 20:22:27 UTC