- From: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:25:26 -0400
- To: "'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken'" <tsiegman@wiley.com>, "'Rich Schwerdtfeger'" <richschwer@gmail.com>
- Cc: "'James Craig'" <jcraig@apple.com>, "'Joanmarie Diggs'" <jdiggs@igalia.com>, "'ARIA Working Group'" <public-aria@w3.org>, "'Fred Esch'" <fesch@us.ibm.com>, "'DPUB-ARIA'" <public-dpub-aria@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <00fc01d1e1e2$8ab4d3a0$a01e7ae0$@gmail.com>
I would also be concerned at least a little that this will diminish accessibility concerns among publishers. If the perception becomes that Apple doesn't support ARIA, publishers are going to ask why they should. When we have to explain that the experience isn't going to be the same across platforms, they aren't going to zero in on the nuance of supporting proper API mappings in some case but not in others. That's far too technical. Matt From: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken [mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com] Sent: July 19, 2016 11:17 AM To: Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com> Cc: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>; Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>; Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>; DPUB-ARIA (public-dpub-aria@w3.org) <public-dpub-aria@w3.org>; Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com> Subject: RE: "doc-panelist" (Was: AXAPI Role mappings for DPub and Graphics AAMs) I confirm your concerns, Rich. We think this information should be passed on to the user. Tzviya Siegman Information Standards Lead Wiley 201-748-6884 tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> From: Rich Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 10:13 AM To: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken Cc: James Craig; Joanmarie Diggs; ARIA Working Group; Fred Esch; DPUB-ARIA (public-dpub-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-dpub-aria@w3.org> ) Subject: Re: "doc-panelist" (Was: AXAPI Role mappings for DPub and Graphics AAMs) We don’t own Apple’s platform but I feel that Apple is making assumptions that are too broad and essentially removing the needed information that should be passed on to the user. I wanted you to confirm or not confirm my concerns. If there is going to be an issue we need to make Apple aware of it. If there is an issue and they still chose to prohibit their own ATs from accessing the information then they made the choice to do so. As for other browsers like Firefox and Chrome, which use IA2, or even Edge I will push to make sure necessary semantics are passed over. The IA2 platform allows for this (Chrome and FF) as the actual object attribute is passed. ATK/ATSP also allows for this. I will be getting with Cynthia on Edge too. A lot of things indeed do not need to be mapped to something unique and this will be the case as you add new roles. There is also the point where you reach information overload with no ROI for AT users. In which case the roles should simply not be mapped. Rich Rich Schwerdtfeger On Jul 18, 2016, at 2:49 PM, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> > wrote: Hi All, While it is true that often there is a heading for these elements (e.g. <h1>Bibliography</h1>), it is not always the case, especially for something like doc-endnotes. I am rather puzzled about mapping items that subclass landmark in DPUB-ARIA to group in the first place though. The purpose of making these elements landmarks was based on experience of users of AT in the long-form publishing world. We expect users to want to navigate to items such as the pagelist, abstract, afterword, and then dive into the individual components of the publication. We can certainly add this to our agenda for the DPUB-ARIA meeting on Thursday. Tzviya Tzviya Siegman Information Standards Lead Wiley 201-748-6884 tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> From: Rich Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 3:32 PM To: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken Cc: James Craig; Joanmarie Diggs; ARIA Working Group; Fred Esch Subject: Re: "doc-panelist" (Was: AXAPI Role mappings for DPub and Graphics AAMs) Sorry that was a typo . It should be doc-pagelist. Also, James provided mappings for things like appendix and acknowledgements below. Rather than expose these as appendix and acknowledgements he believes they only need be exposed as a group as the headers for those section will include those words i. Them at all times Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2016, at 12:50 PM, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken < <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> tsiegman@wiley.com> wrote: Hi Rich, I am puzzled by this question, because I don’t recognize the role doc-panelist. Did something creep in from another document? Thanks, Tzviya Tzviya Siegman Information Standards Lead Wiley 201-748-6884 <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com> tsiegman@wiley.com From: James Craig [ <mailto:jcraig@apple.com> mailto:jcraig@apple.com] Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 1:47 PM To: Rich Schwerdtfeger Cc: Joanmarie Diggs; ARIA Working Group; Fred Esch Subject: "doc-panelist" (Was: AXAPI Role mappings for DPub and Graphics AAMs) What about things like doc-panelist whose superclass is “navigation”? I don't see that in the draft, but I assume it could be mapped like its superclass "navigation" role. If that role is intended to read as "pane list", it looks like the word "panelist", aka a human participant in a panel. The DPUB group should consider changing it to avoid ambiguity. We would do the same superclass mapping with the SVG "graphics-document" role. graphics-document Same as "document" role. AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: AXDocument AXRoleDescription: 'document' For that matter, I'm not convinced the "graphics-document" subrole literal is required. Why can't this just be an implementation details for any "document" inside an image? James On Jul 18, 2016, at 7:12 AM, Rich Schwerdtfeger < <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com> richschwer@gmail.com> wrote: What about things like doc-panelist whose superclass is “navigation”? That is now only a group which has no semantic meaning. Rich Rich Schwerdtfeger On Jul 16, 2016, at 11:56 PM, James Craig < <mailto:jcraig@apple.com> jcraig@apple.com> wrote: I've completed the mapping list below. As most of these do not require special mappings to the API, the mappings should inherit from their superclass role in Core-AAM. These are links, headings, images, an occasional landmark, and a lot of generic groups. Most of the generic groups (abstract, footnotes, etc.) will be clearly identified to the user by a contained heading, so they do not need any additional mapping to the API. Note: Some roles—like chapter and subtitle—are likely to have additional support in the future. However, because no chapter- or subtitle-specific subrole is supported by any user agent or assistive technology, no special mapping should be included in a TR document. Thanks, James Craig On Jul 1, 2016, at 10:45 AM, Joanmarie Diggs < <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com> jdiggs@igalia.com> wrote: Hi Chris and James. I was looking over mappings for the DPub submodule of ARIA and noticed that there were a lot of "TBD" notes for AXSubrole. That, along with spotting "AXRoleDescription: 'doc toc'," suggests we need your input. Below please find a list of all the role mappings for your platform from the DPub AAM spec, along with the three from the Graphics AAM spec. When you have some spare cycles, it would be great if you could review what we currently have and let us know what we should have. Thanks in advance for your time. And have an awesome weekend! --joanie ====================================================================== <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html 1. doc-abstract AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'abstract' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 2. doc-acknowledgments AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'acknowledgments' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 3. doc-afterword AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'afterword' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 4. doc-appendix AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'appendix' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 5. doc-backlink AXRole: AXLink AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'backward reference' AXRole: AXLink AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'link' 6. doc-biblioentry AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'bibliography entry' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 7. doc-bibliography AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'bibliography' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 8. doc-biblioref AXRole: AXLink AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'bibliography reference' AXRole: AXLink AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'link' 9. doc-chapter AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'chapter' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' Chapter is the most likely candidate for a future subrole, but none exists yet. 10. doc-colophon AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'colophon' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 11. doc-conclusion AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'conclusion' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 12. doc-cover AXRole: AXImage AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'image' AXRole: AXImage AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'image' 13. doc-credit AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'credit' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 14. doc-credits AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'credits' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 15. doc-dedication AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'dedication' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 16. doc-endnote AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'endnote' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 17. doc-endnotes AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'endnotes' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 18. doc-epigraph AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'epigraph' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 19. doc-epilogue AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'epilogue' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 20. doc-errata AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'errata' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 21. doc-example AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'example' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 22. doc-footnote AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'footnote' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 23. doc-foreword AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'foreword' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 24. doc-glossary AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'glossary' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 25. doc-glossref AXRole: AXLink AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'glossary reference' AXRole: AXLink AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'link' 26. doc-index AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'index' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 27. doc-introduction AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'introduction' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 28. doc-noteref AXRole: AXLink AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'note reference' AXRole: AXLink AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'link' 29. doc-notice AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'notice' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 30. doc-pagebreak AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'page break' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 31. doc-pagelist AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: AXLandmarkNavigation AXRoleDescription: 'page list' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 32. doc-part AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'part' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 33. doc-preface AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'preface' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 34. doc-prologue AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'prologue' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 35. doc-pullquote: (not mapped) AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 36. doc-qna AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'questions and answers' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 37. doc-subtitle AXRole: AXHeading AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'subtitle' AXRole: AXHeading AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'heading' 38. doc-tip AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: TBD AXRoleDescription: 'tip' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 39. doc-toc AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: AXLandmarkNavigation AXRoleDescription: 'doc toc' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' ====================================================================== <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/graphics-aam/graphics-aam.html> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/graphics-aam/graphics-aam.html 1. graphics-document AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: AXGraphicsDoc AXRoleDescription: 'graphics document' Same as "document" role. AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: AXDocument AXRoleDescription: 'document' 2. graphics-object AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: AXGraphicsObject AXRoleDescription: 'graphics object' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group' 3. graphics-symbol AXRole: TBD AXSubrole: AXSymbol AXRoleDescription: 'graphics symbol' AXRole: AXGroup AXSubrole: <nil> AXRoleDescription: 'group'
Received on Tuesday, 19 July 2016 17:26:07 UTC