W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-aria@w3.org > January 2016

Re: Why does the button role have children presentational="true"?

From: Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 23:47:43 -0500
Message-ID: <CA++QhYyqjq=W21dyCXbS=X0mVjdFqp954UFwTcX5pgiU0ApAhA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
Cc: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
The ARIA spec text for most of these widgets (checkbox and link for
instance)does not state that their descendants are presentational,
though the same logic should apply to links and buttons (except that
non-interactive block elements are allowed inside links in html5).
The spec looks inconsistent to me in this regard.

On 1/3/16, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
> I understand the logic of this spec text, but I think it may be misleading
> to state that role=presentation is implicitly applied to all embedded tags.
> For example, if this were true, then all instances of aria-label that would
> otherwise be applied within the naming calculation would be cancelled out,
> because an element that has been nullified cannot have a name.
> I think what is meant by this spec text is that embedded control types
> within role=button are not allowed, which would be like applying
> role=presentation on these elements to cancel their native roles out.
> E.G a button cannot include embedded links, textboxes, buttons, listboxes,
> menus, tablists, etc.
> Personally I see the same logic applying to quite a few of the other
> interactive widget roles as well, such as link, checkbox, radio, slider,
> option, tab, and so on. Basically all of the interactive widget roles that
> are not composite widgets.
> I agree the spec text doesn't really spell this out very well.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Birkir Gunnarsson [mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com]
> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2016 5:50 PM
> To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
> Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Why does the button role have children presentational="true"?
> Greetings all
> Thanks Steve for your explanation.
> So "children presentational" is the equivalent of putting
> role="presentation" on elements inside the widgets?
> I find the text from the spec definition of children presentational
> confusing.
> "The DOM descendants are presentational. User agents SHOULD NOT expose
> descendants of this element through the platform accessibility API."
> My understanding of this paragraph is that the descendants (including their
> contents) should be hidden from assistive technologies.
> I would like to change the wording of this definition in the ARIA 1.1 spec
> to explain that the semantics of the descendant element should be hidden,
> the equivalent of putting role="presentation" or "none" on the descendant
> elements. However, their content should be exposed to assistive technologies
> according to the accessible name algorithm.
> Thanks
> On 12/31/15, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 31 December 2015 at 15:05, Birkir Gunnarsson
>> <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com
>>> wrote:
>>> <span role="button">New Year's Greetings to <span
>>> class="IcelandFlag">Iceland</span>
>>> </span>
>> Hi Birkir, role=presentation does not hide text nodes, it only hides
>> the role semantics (not content) of the element it is on, and any
>> required children
>> So your example would be same as native button:
>> "New Year's Greetings to Iceland"
>> this info may be helpful:
>> http://w3c.github.io/aria-in-html/#presentation
>> --
>> Regards
>> SteveF
>> Current Standards Work @W3C
>> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w
>> 3c/>
Received on Monday, 4 January 2016 04:48:13 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thursday, 24 March 2022 20:23:18 UTC