Fwd: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 Role Landmark

Hi Alex, 

So, this is pretty much what I expected. The net is you should use the new IA2 landmark role vs. the Form role for newer versions of firefox (along with exposing the xml-roles=“form”) in newer versions of Firefox and this should be reflected in the Core mapping spec. 

I am copying Steve Faulkner as we should do the same thing for an HTML5 form element. The HTML5.1 mapping should reference the ARIA Core mapping spec. for form. 

Cheers,

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger




> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Brett Lewis <blewis@FreedomScientific.com>
> Subject: RE: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 Role Landmark
> Date: April 18, 2016 at 8:25:10 AM CDT
> To: Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>
> 
> Hi Rich,
> I am fine with switching to landmark role for everything.  However, we are going to have to keep checking for form role and/or object attributes for a while until everyone gets to whatever version of Firefox supports the new role.
> Brett
>  
>  
> Brett Lewis
> Software Developer
> Freedom Scientific, Inc
> 727-299-6270 
> blewis@freedomscientific.com <mailto:blewis@freedomscientific.com>
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> From: Rich Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 3:02 PM
> To: Alexander Surkov; Brett Lewis
> Cc: James Teh; Joanmarie Diggs; Joseph Scheuhammer; IA2 List; ARIA Working Group
> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 Role Landmark
>  
> Alex, 
>  
> That is a good question. We did not think about the special case Form Role which is also a landmark.
>  
> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#form <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#form>
>  
> I will ask but the value in using IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK is that you know it is a landmark and can then got to the xml-roles attribute to grab the actual landmark type. 
>  
> I think that it would be easy to check with the landmark role or the form role.
>  
> Brett, would you want to stick with the Form Role or use the IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for it and then look to the xml-roles for the form role? 
>  
>  
>  
> Rich
>  
>  
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>  
>  
> 
>  
> On Apr 13, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com <mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> Hi, all. I'm not yet clear on definition for the new role. What role should we use to expose a 'landmark' role that have a better role match, like FORM role?
>  
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 10:48 PM, Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Alright, please add the role to IA2. We will update the ARIA mapping spec and I will let some of the ATs know and We will need to let Google know as well.
> 
> Rich
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 4:50 PM, James Teh <jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>> wrote:
> >
> > That's a fair justification. We don't have a collections interface for IA2, so if we did want to fetch all landmarks, we have to walk the entire tree in-process, in which case checking the role is about the same as checking xml-roles. Still, it does make sense and I'm happy to accept it given the consensus.
> >
> > I'll leave convincing the other Windows ATs up to someone else, though...
> >
> > Jamie
> >
> >> On 24/02/2016 4:34 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> >> Hey Jamie.
> >>
> >> At least on my platform, getting all of the ROLE_LANDMARK objects (e.g.
> >> for a list of landmarks dialog) via AtspiCollection is a lot more
> >> performant than getting all the elements and then filtering out the
> >> non-landmarks (99-100% of the set) via object attribute. The xml-roles
> >> value remains useful for those cases where it matters what type of
> >> landmark a particular element happens to be.
> >>
> >> If you don't have a similar advantage on your platform, then I guess the
> >> justification is the desire to keep our completely different platforms
> >> as aligned as possible. And if you accept ROLE_LANDMARK, the next time
> >> one of us has to compromise/give in, it will be my turn. <grins>
> >>
> >> --joanie
> >>
> >>> On 02/22/2016 08:37 PM, James Teh wrote:
> >>> Hi Rich,
> >>>
> >>> I don't necessarily have an objection to introducing a new role, but I
> >>> also don't quite follow the justification.
> >>>
> >>> I follow that region became a subclass of landmark. However, I don't
> >>> follow how this changes the "landmark" role; if anything, it changes the
> >>> "region" role. And even then, the region role never had its own IA2 role
> >>> in the first place. Furthermore, since we have to look at xml-roles
> >>> anyway (as we always have, despite my objection years ago, but that's an
> >>> entirely different story), I don't follow how the landmark role is useful.
> >>>
> >>> I'm sure I'm missing something here. Can you enlighten me? :)
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Jamie
> >>>
> >>>> On 20/02/2016 9:37 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
> >>>> Hi Alex,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am following up on this earlier discussion regarding needing an
> >>>> IA2_LANDMARK_ROLE
> >>>>
> >>>> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2016-January/001993.html <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2016-January/001993.html>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> A fundamental change from ARIA 1.0 is we now have the role “region” as
> >>>> a descendant of a role of landmark:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#region <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#region>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So, this is the revised set of landmarks:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#landmark_roles <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#landmark_roles>
> >>>>
> >>>> The reason for this is developers have been using labelledy regions as
> >>>> landmarks and in HTML5 we now have a section landmark which will
> >>>> default to a role of “region” if it has a label on it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Given this change we would like this a new IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK that
> >>>> matches the landmark role we now have in ATK/ATSPI. The xml-roles
> >>>> attribute would take the value of the actual role as we know.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is there any objection to introducing this new role in IA2?
> >>>>
> >>>> We are trying to lock down ARIA 1.1 and this is one of the issues we
> >>>> need to address.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Rich
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
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> >>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2>
> >>> --
> >>> James Teh
> >>> Executive Director, NV Access Limited
> >>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
> >>> www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
> >>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
> >>> Twitter: @NVAccess
> >>> SIP: jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2>
> >
> > --
> > James Teh
> > Executive Director, NV Access Limited
> > Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
> > www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
> > Twitter: @NVAccess
> > SIP: jamie@nvaccess.org <mailto:jamie@nvaccess.org>
> >