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Re: Proposal to add ARCHON Number as a Wikidata property -- and a thought about ISCI

From: Dooley,Jackie <dooleyj@oclc.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 17:40:36 +0000
To: Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com>, Jane Stevenson <jane.stevenson@jisc.ac.uk>
CC: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, public-architypes <public-architypes@w3.org>
Message-ID: <2E840E63-0436-43B5-AD7B-C6DB18461604@oclc.org>
I confess that I haven’t been following the full thread--I’m minimally informed about schema.org stuff and don’t feel I can intelligently contribute. The discussion of ISILs has caught my attention, however.

Another existing ISO standard is ISCI – Intl Standard Collection Number – was published in 2012. As far as I could determine in the ensuing several years, it received close to zero uptake, but I’ve always felt it has enormous potential for archival materials. ISCIs are intended to be universally unique, like other identifiers. Given that many archival descriptions are exposed via multiple metadata records (e.g. MARC, local EAD, EAD sent to multiple aggregators, item records linked to parent EADs), ISCI could serve the purpose that standard numbers for other types of material do to cement the fact that they all refer to the same archival entity.


Am I correct in thinking that in the Archon context an ISIL would be assigned to the institution holding the archival material, but not the collection itself? ISCI would serve the latter purpose perfectly. It’s not 100% clear to me whether the Archon examples below are showing a collection-specific ID added to an ISIL.

Apologies for not getting fully up to speed before raising this—Jackie

Jackie Dooley

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From: Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 3:44 AM
To: Jane Stevenson <jane.stevenson@jisc.ac.uk>
Cc: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, public-architypes <public-architypes@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Proposal to add ARCHON Number as a Wikidata property
Resent-From: <public-architypes@w3.org>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 3:53 AM

I have to admit that I can’t see any relation between ISIL (assigned by the BL in the UK, other orgs internationally) and ARCHON (assigned by TNA, UK only I think?).

Wikidata already supports the ISIL property https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P791

Obviously both ISIL and ARCHON IDs could be added to web pages using the pattern Richard described


Owen Stephens
Owen Stephens Consulting
Web: http://www.ostephens.com
Email: owen@ostephens.com<mailto:owen@ostephens.com>
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On 20 Feb 2017, at 12:19, Jane Stevenson <jane.stevenson@jisc.ac.uk<mailto:jane.stevenson@jisc.ac.uk>> wrote:

That certainly looks useful.

I would like a definite view on the relationships of an ISIL to an Archon…something I never managed to ascertain when I tried a few years ago. We only have one ISIL code used on the Hub (instead of an Archon code), but many places have both.

e.g. Glasgow School of Art: GB-StGlSA / GB-1694.

In the Archives Portal Europe I’ve ended up saying the Archon is an ISIL code (I think France did that too) because otherwise APE wouldn’t use the Archon code for the identifier and would make up a random one, which makes no sense at all.

…anyway, maybe I’m going off topic….


On 16 Feb 2017, at 16:31, Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com<mailto:richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>> wrote:

Yes  tangentially relevant.

Regardless of if [hopefully] the Wikidata proposal is accepted, this kind of id could be added to the description of the Archive with the upcoming enhancement to the Schema:identifier property in the next release which enables the description of general identifiers for any thing.

“name”: “London Metropolitan Archives: City of London”,
”identifier”: {
   “@type”: “PropertyValue”,
   “propertyID”: “ARCHON”,
   “propertyValue”: “74”

Richard Wallis
Founder, Data Liberate

Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
Twitter: @rjw

On 16 February 2017 at 15:57, Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com> wrote:
Only tangentially relevant perhaps, but I thought this proposal was interesting https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/ARCHON_number

I don’t know if making a schema.org ‘sameAs’ assertion to wikidata is of interest to archives, but if this proposal is approved it could make that easier to do…


Owen Stephens
Owen Stephens Consulting
Web: http://www.ostephens.com
Email: owen@ostephens.com
Telephone: 0121 288 6936

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Received on Tuesday, 21 February 2017 17:41:16 UTC

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