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Re: Proposal to add ARCHON Number as a Wikidata property -- and a thought about ISCI

From: Jane Stevenson <Jane.Stevenson@jisc.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:40:52 +0000
To: "Dooley,Jackie" <dooleyj@oclc.org>
CC: "owen@ostephens.com" <owen@ostephens.com>, Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, public-architypes <public-architypes@w3.org>
Message-ID: <3E89B957-67CA-4CA1-9BE6-0E24F4DE7AE8@jisc.ac.uk>
Hi Jackie,

I haven’t come across ISCI before. You are right that the Archon number is allocated to the archive repository; it does not cover the collections themselves. We (the Archives Hub) create the unique collection identifier by using the countrycode-archoncode-reference.  I think one problem with the ISCI - if I understand it correctly - is that you would want to get the archivists to apply ISCIs to their collections. Otherwise you’d end up with a collection reference and an ISCI and you’d be back to mapping between two systems. That would be an enormous task for collections already in existence. You would also need to have a way to administer it so that every collection throughout the world got a unique identifier. With our system, we just have to ensure that each collection, within a repository, and each unit of a collection,  has a unique identifier - and even that doesn’t always happen! But at least we can check for uniqueness when it is just within one repository.   

A unique collection identifier presumably should also be required to uniquely identify parts of a collection, as very often we think in terms of a series, for example, and you would also have the usual problems of collections that change, develop, expand, contract (whatever unique identifier you use, that will be a challenge!). 

cheers
Jane

Jane Stevenson
Archives Hub Service Manager
jane.stevenson@jisc.ac.uk

Tel: 0161 413 7555
Web: archiveshub.jisc ac.uk
Skype:  janestevenson
Twitter: @archiveshub, @janestevenson

jisc.ac.uk

> On 21 Feb 2017, at 17:40, Dooley,Jackie <dooleyj@oclc.org> wrote:
> 
> I confess that I haven’t been following the full thread--I’m minimally informed about schema.org stuff and don’t feel I can intelligently contribute. The discussion of ISILs has caught my attention, however. 
>  
> Another existing ISO standard is ISCI – Intl Standard Collection Number – was published in 2012. As far as I could determine in the ensuing several years, it received close to zero uptake, but I’ve always felt it has enormous potential for archival materials. ISCIs are intended to be universally unique, like other identifiers. Given that many archival descriptions are exposed via multiple metadata records (e.g. MARC, local EAD, EAD sent to multiple aggregators, item records linked to parent EADs), ISCI could serve the purpose that standard numbers for other types of material do to cement the fact that they all refer to the same archival entity.
>  
> https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:27730:ed-1:v1:en

>  
> Am I correct in thinking that in the Archon context an ISIL would be assigned to the institution holding the archival material, but not the collection itself? ISCI would serve the latter purpose perfectly. It’s not 100% clear to me whether the Archon examples below are showing a collection-specific ID added to an ISIL.
>  
> Apologies for not getting fully up to speed before raising this—Jackie
>  
> --
> Jackie Dooley
> Program Officer, OCLC Research
> 647 Camino de los Mares, Suite 108-240
> San Clemente, CA 92673
> office/home 949-492-5060
> mobile 949-295-1529
> dooleyj@oclc.org
> 
> OCLC.org/research
>  
>  
>  
> From: Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com>
> Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 3:44 AM
> To: Jane Stevenson <jane.stevenson@jisc.ac.uk>
> Cc: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, public-architypes <public-architypes@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Proposal to add ARCHON Number as a Wikidata property
> Resent-From: <public-architypes@w3.org>
> Resent-Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 3:53 AM
>  
> I have to admit that I can’t see any relation between ISIL (assigned by the BL in the UK, other orgs internationally) and ARCHON (assigned by TNA, UK only I think?). 
>  
> Wikidata already supports the ISIL property https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P791

>  
> Obviously both ISIL and ARCHON IDs could be added to web pages using the pattern Richard described
>  
> Owen
>  
> Owen Stephens
> Owen Stephens Consulting
> Web: http://www.ostephens.com

> Email: owen@ostephens.com
> Telephone: 0121 288 6936
>  
>> On 20 Feb 2017, at 12:19, Jane Stevenson <jane.stevenson@jisc.ac.uk> wrote:
>>  
>> That certainly looks useful.
>> 
>> I would like a definite view on the relationships of an ISIL to an Archon…something I never managed to ascertain when I tried a few years ago. We only have one ISIL code used on the Hub (instead of an Archon code), but many places have both. 
>> 
>> e.g. Glasgow School of Art: GB-StGlSA / GB-1694. 
>> 
>> In the Archives Portal Europe I’ve ended up saying the Archon is an ISIL code (I think France did that too) because otherwise APE wouldn’t use the Archon code for the identifier and would make up a random one, which makes no sense at all. 
>> 
>> …anyway, maybe I’m going off topic….
>> 
>> cheers,
>> Jane. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 16 Feb 2017, at 16:31, Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes  tangentially relevant.
>>> 
>>> Regardless of if [hopefully] the Wikidata proposal is accepted, this kind of id could be added to the description of the Archive with the upcoming enhancement to the Schema:identifier property in the next release which enables the description of general identifiers for any thing.
>>> 
>>> “name”: “London Metropolitan Archives: City of London”,
>>> ”identifier”: {
>>>    “@type”: “PropertyValue”,
>>>    “propertyID”: “ARCHON”,
>>>    “propertyValue”: “74”
>>>  }
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Richard Wallis
>>> Founder, Data Liberate
>>> http://dataliberate.com

>>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis

>>> Twitter: @rjw
>>> 
>>> On 16 February 2017 at 15:57, Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com> wrote:
>>> Only tangentially relevant perhaps, but I thought this proposal was interesting https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/ARCHON_number

>>> 
>>> I don’t know if making a schema.org ‘sameAs’ assertion to wikidata is of interest to archives, but if this proposal is approved it could make that easier to do…
>>> 
>>> Owen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Owen Stephens
>>> Owen Stephens Consulting
>>> Web: http://www.ostephens.com

>>> Email: owen@ostephens.com
>>> Telephone: 0121 288 6936
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Received on Thursday, 23 February 2017 15:41:53 UTC

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