- From: Carl Reed <creed@opengeospatial.org>
- Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 08:30:10 -0700
- To: "George Percivall" <gpercivall@opengeospatial.org>, "Neil Trevett" <ntrevett@nvidia.com>
- Cc: <discussion@arstandards.org>, <public-ar@w3.org>, "Martin Lechner" <martin.lechner@wikitude.com>
- Message-ID: <EC0A882C80EA49B6A181F8806430FB41@OfficeHP>
I was searching for examples of the use of OGC standards in AR applications. Stumbled on some patents in the web mapping/3d/AR space. One example is:
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100277504
Appears Song is getting quite prolific in the AR patent space.
Anyway, in my mind, there is nothing new or innovative in the patent. The GIS community has been doing these types of applications ever since the Web was accessible from a smart phone.
That said, I think perhaps we should think about providing a set of possible prior art that folks could use in terms of insuring that any AR standards developed by the OGC, W3C, etc remain RAND-RF.
So, anyone have examples of the type of “invention” detailed in the above patent that were publicly available prior to 2010?
Cheers
Carl
From: George Percivall
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 7:32 AM
To: Neil Trevett
Cc: discussion@arstandards.org ; public-ar@w3.org ; Martin Lechner
Subject: Re: [AR Standards Discussion] I've created a Related Standardspagefor the group
Christine,
A few more edits on http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/existing-standards/
In the location standards table.
Add OGC Open GeoSMS
http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/opengeosms
Add a remark for these standards: KML, WMS, GML, Open GeoSMS:
Implementation = http://www.opengeospatial.org/resource/products/byspec
Regards,
George
On Jan 2, 2013, at 3:26 PM, Neil Trevett <ntrevett@nvidia.com> wrote:
Hi Rob,
http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/existing-standards/
Nice list. Some general 'housekeeping level' feedback..
Suggest 'Graphics Standards' -> 'Content Formats'
MP3 could be moved into this list
H.264 AVC could be moved to this list
SVG should be moved to Graphics APIs
X3D debatably should be moved to Graphics APIs - or in both lists
Suggest new Section - 'Graphics APIs'
OpenGL ES (native 3D graphics)
WebGL (JavaScript binding to OpenGL ES for 3D rendering into Canvas)
SVG
Canvas
X3D
Suggest new section 'Media and Audio APIs'
Audio element
Video element
Web Audio?
MediaStream?
WebRTC?
OpenSL ES
OpenMAX
Nokia FCAM - I am not sure this is an official standard yet
Hardware Control is left with
Device API
This will clean up the categories I think and make it more consistent with the W3C lists you mention. Hope this helps...
Neil
-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-bounces@arstandards.org [mailto:discussion-bounces@arstandards.org] On Behalf Of Martin Lechner
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:45 AM
To: Rob Manson
Cc: discussion@arstandards.org; public-ar@w3.org
Subject: Re: [AR Standards Discussion] I've created a Related Standards pagefor the group
Hi Rob,
works for me, thanks.
Please also link to the SWG public page (http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/groups/arml2.0swg), it links to the current spec.
Best,
Martin
Am 28.12.2012 03:05, schrieb Rob Manson:
Hi Martin,
I understand what you're saying but my point was that there are no
publicly available js libs that implement ARML2 at the moment which is
why I thought it didn't qualify "at the moment".
How about I make this compromise. I'll add a footnote about ARML2 and
link to your blog post on your "prototype-AR Window implementation".
Hope that works for everyone.
roBman
On 12/12/12 20:18, Martin Lechner wrote:
Hi Rob, George, et.al!
sorry for following up a little late here.
Rob, good to see that there's consolidated movement also within the
W3C Community Group now, and that you're taking the lead here!
My opinion on how ARML2 [1] relates to the W3C Community Group:
While you are right that ARML2 does not have a native implementation
in a browser yet, our prototype-AR Window implementation [1] shows
that it can be implemented in a web browsers plugin-free with web
technologies such as WebGL and the various JS APIs, such as
GeoLocation and DeviceOrientation for the spatial part. The
ComputerVision-Part can also be implemented plugin-free and solely in
JS, as described by a paper of TU Graz [2].
ARML2 can be seen as the language describing the AR scene, which is
complementary to and uses the APIs the browsers expose. In fact, it
takes a JS library to make ARML2 webbrowser-compliant, rather than a
native implementation in the browser (which of course might bring a
certain speedup eventually, especially in the CV part).
So, to summarize, I ask to include ARML2 in the discussion, and not
cross it off the list because it does not yet run in a native browser.
I'm happy to give more insight on request.
Thanks,
Martin
[1] - http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/groups/arml2.0swg
[2] -
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/05/16/wikitude-takes-its-augmented
-reality-beyond-apps-and-direct-to-the-mobile-web/
or http://www.wikitude.com/wikitude-lab-takes-augmented-reality-web
[3] -
http://icg.tugraz.at/publications/natural-feature-tracking-in-javascr
ipt/at_download/file
Am 01.12.2012 05:28, schrieb Rob Manson:
Hi George,
Good to see AR discussion in W3C.
...unless its a walled garden.
You really do not plan to include ARML in "related standards".
Sorry if it appeared that way...that's definitely not the case. I've
added this content to the top of the Related Standards page to make
it a little clearer.
Here is an overview of the key standards that are enabling the
Augmented Web. The standards listed on this page are capable of
running inside some version of a standard web browser from one of the
mainstream web browser vendors today.
NOTE: If you are interested in a broader set of Augmented Reality
standards then please view the ARStandards.org list[1].
I hope this helps make sense of the difference between the 2 lists.
ARML1 was discussed in a prior W3C AR workshop.
Nothing that happens in this CG mandates any particular action
anywhere in the W3C. So there's definitely no impact here.
ARML2 is going through the OGC process for adoption as an OGC
standard.
The OGC process requires at least two or more commitments to
implementation.
I'm sure that's the case and what I took away from discussions at
the ARStandards meeting was that none of these had commenced yet or
had real plans to in the short term.
To not consider ARML2 in W3C seems to be a blind spot.
I'm sure the OGC will continue discussions with the W3C about the
overlap between all of your standards. As I said, this CG really
doesn't have any impact on that.
And I hope it's now clear that I'm not "excluding" ARML...it's just
that to be included on that Related Standards[2] page a standard
must have a working implementation in a version of a mainstream web
browser today.
This is not just some arbitrary decision. This is directly related
to the new Charter[3] and I hope that I've been really clear as to
why this makes sense.
roBman
[1] http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/existing-standards/
[2] http://www.w3.org/community/ar/related-standards/
[3] http://www.w3.org/community/ar/wiki/Charter
On Nov 25, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Rob Manson <roBman@mob-labs.com
<mailto:roBman@mob-labs.com>> wrote:
Hi George,
Good to see AR discussion in W3C. Enjoyed your paper at the AR
Community meeting.
Thanks.
Suggest your list of AR standards should add ARML2.
I was going to include it but it doesn't currently have any web
browsers that parse or support it. So at the moment it can't
currently be classified as an Augmented Web related standard.
The dynamic binding is closer and if somebody implemented a
library that makes this work within one of the mainstream web
browsers then that could change. But for now I would classify it
as an "AR Standard" and not an "Augmented Web Standard".
BTW: Have any of the AR Browser Vendors committed to implementing it?
From memory both Martin and Hafez said that they weren't yet
working on this.
News about POI WG:
Ian Jacobs sent a mail to W3C members that the POI WG is closed
as of September 2012, and that no further progress is foreseen.
See
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2012JulSep/00
61.html
(member
only).
A "Places" community group
<http://www.w3.org/community/places/> focusing on representing
POI in microformats, RDF and JSON has been created. The Open
Geospatial Consortium <http://www.opengeospatial.org/> is in the
process of creating a standards working group to standardize the
POI conceptual data model and XML encoding.
Yep I saw the email about that on the POI WG mailing list. If any
"Place/Location" based standards based on
microformats/microdata/RDF/JSON please let me know and I'll add
that to the Related Standards list.
roBman
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Received on Thursday, 3 January 2013 15:49:13 UTC