Re: [AR Standards Discussion] Change of topic - Patents in the AR space

Hi Carl,

I like the idea, though I don't know if there are good tools to do
this. I can imagine the pool of examples growing very large very
quickly, beyond human capabilities to manage by hand.

Concerning this specific patent, I only had time to read through the
abstract and it sounds like "any FLARtoolkit marketing gimmick in
2009" could be considered an example of prior art.

Best regards and best wishes for another exciting year,

Jens

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Carl Reed <creed@opengeospatial.org> wrote:
> I was searching for examples of the use of OGC standards in AR applications.
> Stumbled on some patents in the web mapping/3d/AR space. One example is:
>
> http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100277504
>
> Appears Song is getting quite prolific in the AR patent space.
>
> Anyway, in my mind, there is nothing new or innovative in the patent. The
> GIS community has been doing these types of applications ever since the Web
> was accessible from a smart phone.
>
> That said, I think perhaps we should think about providing a set of possible
> prior art that folks could use in terms of insuring that any AR standards
> developed by the OGC, W3C, etc remain RAND-RF.
>
> So, anyone have examples of the type of “invention” detailed in the above
> patent that were publicly available prior to 2010?
>
> Cheers
>
> Carl
>
>
> From: George Percivall
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 7:32 AM
> To: Neil Trevett
> Cc: discussion@arstandards.org ; public-ar@w3.org ; Martin Lechner
> Subject: Re: [AR Standards Discussion] I've created a Related
> Standardspagefor the group
>
> Christine,
>
> A few more edits on http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/existing-standards/
>
> In the location standards table.
>
> Add OGC Open GeoSMS
> http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/opengeosms
>
> Add a remark for these standards: KML, WMS, GML, Open GeoSMS:
> Implementation = http://www.opengeospatial.org/resource/products/byspec
>
> Regards,
> George
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 3:26 PM, Neil Trevett <ntrevett@nvidia.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/existing-standards/
> Nice list.   Some general 'housekeeping level' feedback..
>
> Suggest 'Graphics Standards' -> 'Content Formats'
> MP3 could be moved into this list
> H.264 AVC could be moved to this list
> SVG should be moved to Graphics APIs
> X3D debatably should be moved to Graphics APIs - or in both lists
>
> Suggest new Section - 'Graphics APIs'
> OpenGL ES (native 3D graphics)
> WebGL (JavaScript binding to OpenGL ES for 3D rendering into Canvas)
> SVG
> Canvas
> X3D
>
> Suggest new section 'Media and Audio APIs'
> Audio element
> Video element
> Web Audio?
> MediaStream?
> WebRTC?
> OpenSL ES
> OpenMAX
> Nokia FCAM - I am not sure this is an official standard yet
>
> Hardware Control is left with
> Device API
>
> This will clean up the categories I think and make it more consistent with
> the W3C lists you mention.  Hope this helps...
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-bounces@arstandards.org
> [mailto:discussion-bounces@arstandards.org] On Behalf Of Martin Lechner
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:45 AM
> To: Rob Manson
> Cc: discussion@arstandards.org; public-ar@w3.org
> Subject: Re: [AR Standards Discussion] I've created a Related Standards
> pagefor the group
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> works for me, thanks.
> Please also link to the SWG public page
> (http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/groups/arml2.0swg), it links to the
> current spec.
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
>
> Am 28.12.2012 03:05, schrieb Rob Manson:
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> I understand what you're saying but my point was that there are no
> publicly available js libs that implement ARML2 at the moment which is
> why I thought it didn't qualify "at the moment".
>
> How about I make this compromise.  I'll add a footnote about ARML2 and
> link to your blog post on your "prototype-AR Window implementation".
>
> Hope that works for everyone.
>
> roBman
>
>
> On 12/12/12 20:18, Martin Lechner wrote:
>
> Hi Rob, George, et.al!
>
> sorry for following up a little late here.
> Rob, good to see that there's consolidated movement also within the
> W3C Community Group now, and that you're taking the lead here!
>
> My opinion on how ARML2 [1] relates to the W3C Community Group:
> While you are right that ARML2 does not have a native implementation
> in a browser yet, our prototype-AR Window implementation [1] shows
> that it can be implemented in a web browsers plugin-free with web
> technologies such as WebGL and the various JS APIs, such as
> GeoLocation and DeviceOrientation for the spatial part. The
> ComputerVision-Part can also be implemented plugin-free and solely in
> JS, as described by a paper of TU Graz [2].
>
> ARML2 can be seen as the language describing the AR scene, which is
> complementary to and uses the APIs the browsers expose. In fact, it
> takes a JS library to make ARML2 webbrowser-compliant, rather than a
> native implementation in the browser (which of course might bring a
> certain speedup eventually, especially in the CV part).
> So, to summarize, I ask to include ARML2 in the discussion, and not
> cross it off the list because it does not yet run in a native browser.
> I'm happy to give more insight on request.
>
> Thanks,
> Martin
>
> [1] - http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/groups/arml2.0swg
> [2] -
> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/05/16/wikitude-takes-its-augmented
> -reality-beyond-apps-and-direct-to-the-mobile-web/
>
> or http://www.wikitude.com/wikitude-lab-takes-augmented-reality-web
> [3] -
> http://icg.tugraz.at/publications/natural-feature-tracking-in-javascr
> ipt/at_download/file
>
>
>
>
> Am 01.12.2012 05:28, schrieb Rob Manson:
>
> Hi George,
>
> Good to see AR discussion in W3C.
>
> ...unless its  a walled garden.
> You really do not plan to include ARML in "related standards".
>
>
> Sorry if it appeared that way...that's definitely not the case. I've
> added this content to the top of the Related Standards page to make
> it a little clearer.
>
> Here is an overview of the key standards that are enabling the
> Augmented Web.  The standards listed on this page are capable of
> running inside some version of a standard web browser from one of the
> mainstream web browser vendors today.
>
> NOTE: If you are interested in a broader set of Augmented Reality
>        standards then please view the ARStandards.org list[1].
>
> I hope this helps make sense of the difference between the 2 lists.
>
>
> ARML1 was discussed in a prior W3C AR workshop.
>
>
> Nothing that happens in this CG mandates any particular action
> anywhere in the W3C.  So there's definitely no impact here.
>
>
> ARML2 is going through the OGC process for adoption as an OGC
> standard.
> The OGC process requires at least two or more commitments to
> implementation.
>
>
> I'm sure that's the case and what I took away from discussions at
> the ARStandards meeting was that none of these had commenced yet or
> had real plans to in the short term.
>
>
> To not consider ARML2 in W3C seems to be a blind spot.
>
>
> I'm sure the OGC will continue discussions with the W3C about the
> overlap between all of your standards.  As I said, this CG really
> doesn't have any impact on that.
>
> And I hope it's now clear that I'm not "excluding" ARML...it's just
> that to be included on that Related Standards[2] page a standard
> must have a working implementation in a version of a mainstream web
> browser today.
>
> This is not just some arbitrary decision.  This is directly related
> to the new Charter[3] and I hope that I've been really clear as to
> why this makes sense.
>
> roBman
>
> [1] http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/existing-standards/
> [2] http://www.w3.org/community/ar/related-standards/
> [3] http://www.w3.org/community/ar/wiki/Charter
>
>
> On Nov 25, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Rob Manson <roBman@mob-labs.com
> <mailto:roBman@mob-labs.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi George,
>
> Good to see AR discussion in W3C. Enjoyed your paper at the AR
> Community meeting.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Suggest your list of AR standards should add ARML2.
>
>
> I was going to include it but it doesn't currently have any web
> browsers that parse or support it.  So at the moment it can't
> currently be classified as an Augmented Web related standard.
>
> The dynamic binding is closer and if somebody implemented a
> library that makes this work within one of the mainstream web
> browsers then that could change.  But for now I would classify it
> as an "AR Standard" and not an "Augmented Web Standard".
>
> BTW: Have any of the AR Browser Vendors committed to implementing it?
> From memory both Martin and Hafez said that they weren't yet
> working on this.
>
>
> News about  POI WG:
> Ian Jacobs sent a mail to W3C members that the POI WG is closed
> as of September 2012, and that no further progress is foreseen.
> See
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2012JulSep/00
> 61.html
>
>
> (member
> only).
> A "Places" community group
> <http://www.w3.org/community/places/> focusing on representing
> POI in microformats, RDF and JSON has been created. The Open
> Geospatial Consortium <http://www.opengeospatial.org/> is in the
> process of creating a standards working group to standardize the
> POI conceptual data model and XML encoding.
>
>
> Yep I saw the email about that on the POI WG mailing list.  If any
> "Place/Location" based standards based on
> microformats/microdata/RDF/JSON please let me know and I'll add
> that to the Related Standards list.
>
> roBman
>
>
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>
> --
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> Martin Lechner
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>
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>
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-- 
Jens de Smit
The Open Technology guy | jens@layar.com | @jfdsmit | +31 628 597 403

Received on Friday, 4 January 2013 13:02:03 UTC