Re: annotation protocol

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Ray,

Yes! Apologies for my poor wording of the question.

Hope you are having a great day!

Patrick

On 11/25/2014 07:54 AM, Denenberg, Ray wrote:
> Hi Patrick - If I understand the question:  If I have a resource,
> and someone creates an annotation of that resource, and I am
> notified of that annotation, am I free to ignore it?  Absolutely.
> Is the annotator obligated to notify me? Absolutely not.
> 
> Hope I understood the question correctly.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Ray
> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Durusau
>> [mailto:patrick@durusau.net] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 7:57
>> PM To: Denenberg, Ray; 'public-annotation@w3.org' Subject: Re:
>> annotation protocol
>> 
> Ray,
> 
> OK but the annotator made the choice to make the annotation
> available. Yes? Great use case and one that needs to be met, just
> wanted to make sure that notice of the annotation is voluntary.
> 
> Hope you are having a great day!
> 
> Patrick
> 
> On 11/24/2014 10:03 AM, Denenberg, Ray wrote:
>>>> Hi Patrick – I posted a few use cases last week, among them:
>>>> 
>>>> * *Holdings*.  A “Holding” annotation asserts that a
>>>> particular library holds a copy of a particular item (e.g.
>>>> book).  Thus the body is a structured description of the
>>>> holding, including the holding library, its location, call
>>>> number of the item, access conditions, etc.  The target is a
>>>> resource description of the item. / /*Use Case: */Lucy is
>>>> looking for a copy of the book /Plum Island, by DeMille./She 
>>>> would like to find a local library that holds a copy, within
>>>> her town of Independence Missouri. She searches by title and
>>>> finds the resource description. Holding Annotations are
>>>> attached to it, and she discovers that Blue River Library has
>>>> a copy, which she is able to borrow./
>>>> 
>>>> So,   you have a database of bibliographic descriptions, a 
>>>> particular description describing a particular book. When a
>>>> library obtains a copy of that book, it notifies you, and
>>>> then patrons looking for that book can query your database to
>>>> find institutions holding a copy.
>>>> 
>>>> Ray
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Patrick Durusau [mailto:patrick@durusau.net]
>>>> 
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 9:38 AM
>>>> 
>>>>> To: public-annotation@w3.org
>>>> 
>>>>> Subject: Re: annotation protocol
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ray,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Curious about:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> when an annotation is created, a notification is sent to
>>>>> the target
>>>> 
>>>>> (or to the administrator of the database where the target
>>>>> resides, or
>>>> 
>>>>> something along those lines).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> What is the use case/requirement for notification of the
>>>> target?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thinking annotations on a remote target for purely internal
>>>>> consumption, say
>>>> 
>>>> a group of investigators, where notification of the target
>>>> might make
>>>>> further
>>>> 
>>>> investigation more difficult.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hope you are at the start of a great week!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Patrick
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 11/24/2014 09:19 AM, Denenberg, Ray wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Frederick – I agree that we have much to do, and I can
>>>>> understand if
>>>> 
>>>>> many or most of us don’t place a high priority on discover 
>>>>> mechanisms.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> For what it’s worth, from my perspective, annotations
>>>>> aren’t worth
>>>> 
>>>>> much If you can’t discover them. That doesn’t mean we need
>>>>> to develop
>>>> 
>>>>> or define discovery mechanisms.  All I really need to see
>>>>> is a
>>>> 
>>>>> mechanism by which when an annotation is created, a
>>>>> notification is
>>>> 
>>>>> sent to the target (or to the administrator of the database
>>>>> where the
>>>> 
>>>>> target resides, or something along those lines).
>>>> 
>>>>> The rest of the discovery process may be left out of scope
>>>>> for this
>>>> 
>>>>> version as far as I am concerned.  And I think that Rob has
>>>>> already
>>>> 
>>>>> said that we would likely include such a mechanism. So I
>>>>> think we’re
>>>> 
>>>>> good.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Ray
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> *From:*Frederick Hirsch [mailto:w3c@fjhirsch.com] *Sent:*
>>>>> Sunday,
>>>> 
>>>>> November 23, 2014 8:46 AM *To:* Denenberg, Ray *Cc:*
>>>>> Frederick Hirsch;
>>>> 
>>>>> Web Annotation *Subject:* Re: annotation protocol
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Ray
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> What I read from your email is the following issue:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> issue:  define discovery mechanism for annotations
>>>>> associated with a
>>>> 
>>>>> given target
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I would not expect the data model to define discovery
>>>>> mechanism, nor
>>>> 
>>>>> general protocol definitions.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> This is another aspect that may require use cases and
>>>>> definitions;
>>>> 
>>>>> however not in immediate charter scope [1], so probably
>>>>> v.next issue
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Even if all is localized, we seem to have enough to do :)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> does this all make sense?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> regards, Frederick
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Frederick Hirsch, Nokia
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Co-Chair W3C Web Annotation WG
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> @fjhirsch
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/annotation/charter/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 18, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Denenberg, Ray <rden@loc.gov
>>>> 
>>>>> <mailto:rden@loc.gov>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I am not clear on what we mean when we talk about protocol
>>>>> with
>>>> 
>>>>> respect to annotations.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> In my view of the world of annotations, ProviderX has a
>>>>> database of
>>>> 
>>>>> resources, for example, journal articles. UserA reads an
>>>>> article and
>>>> 
>>>>> creates an annotation.  That annotation is a resource
>>>>> created on some
>>>> 
>>>>> annotation database that userA has access to create an
>>>> 
>>>>> annotation on (obviously, not on ProviderX’s database).
>>>>> UserB
>>>> 
>>>>> (unrelated to UserA) comes across that article and want to
>>>>> see
>>>> 
>>>>> annotations of the article.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> How does UserB discover UserA’s annotation (or for that
>>>>> matter any
>>>> 
>>>>> annotation of that article)? UserB doesn’t even know of
>>>>> the existence
>>>> 
>>>>> of UserA and his/her annotation database.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Is this what we mean (or part of what we mean) by
>>>>> annotation protocol?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Pardon the naïve question but I don’t see this addressed in
>>>>> the model.
>>>> 
>>>>> It is something I’ve wondered about for quite a while and
>>>>> don’t have
>>>> 
>>>>> an answer.  But I speculate that part of the process is
>>>>> that when
>>>> 
>>>>> UserA creates the annotation,  ProviderX is somehow
>>>>> notified of its
>>>> 
>>>>> creation and can choose to point to that annotation, and
>>>>> then UserB
>>>> 
>>>>> can find it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Is this issue addressed anywhere in any greater detail than
>>>>> this vague
>>>> 
>>>>> description?  Or is this to be part of the “protocol” to
>>>>> be developed.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Apologies if this has all been addressed and solved,  and I
>>>>> just can’t
>>>> 
>>>>> find it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Ray
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
> 

- -- 
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB)
Co-Chair, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC, Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Former Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
Co-Editor, ISO 13250-5 (Topic Maps)

Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net
Homepage: http://www.durusau.net
Twitter: patrickDurusau
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Received on Tuesday, 25 November 2014 16:13:16 UTC