Re: no frames?/maybe a visual synopsis

Thank you
I ll add this to the reader for KG
'
A Common Sense View of Knowledge Graphs
https://www.mkbergman.com/2244/a-common-sense-view-of-knowledge-graphs/



On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 11:53 PM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> wrote:

> Hi Paola,
>
> I appreciate the challenge of having an initial interest in Peirce. To
> help others seeking to learn more about this amazing intellect, I wrote:
>
> https://www.mkbergman.com/2069/how-i-study-c-s-peirce/
>
> about four years ago to capture my own journey in learning more about
> Charley. Since then, I would add (and start with!) Burch's fine overview of
> CSP:
>
> https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/peirce/
>
> I think my own Appendix A to my book is pretty good, too, and is free in
> the pre-release author's version. BTW, some of my other book chapters are
> available for free in PDF from:
>
> https://www.mkbergman.com/a-knowledge-representation-practionary/
>
> Thanks, Mike
> On 2/14/2021 3:20 AM, Paola Di Maio wrote:
>
> well I tried
> :-)
>
> you book is  valuable especially to those who are interested to learn more
> about Peirce
>  Especially relevant  to knowledge graphs,
>
> (How did existential graph became knowledge graphs?)
> I have seen some slides...from you
>
> but
> there are  many great books to read these days
> https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/iconic-logic-peirces-graphs
>
> and each book brings up new questions
>
>  most students and researchers when solving  problem need practical
> approaches and very direct pointers
> or get lost
>
> it helps to know what question does a specific book..chapter answer to
> motivate people to read  it and justify the recommendation
> to librarians etc
>
> there are also conflicting accounts as to what ideas originated where and
> how they became transformed
>
> so yes, we should all learn more about Peirce (and read you book!) but
> given that Perice's contribution is vast and diverse,  and the impact so
> vast it's easier for a specialise like yourself to provide  a pointer
>
> For example there are  useful references to Peirce's work in relation to
> semantic networks, which can be translated to
>  to frames yet Peirce is rarely mentioned
>
> I wonder if this is why he does not get the credits he deserves and his
> contribution became diluted and attributed to different authors
>
> In sum, while Pierces contribution is to be studied, and your book to be
> read, not sure if reading books is the quickest way to solve problems or
> answer immediate small questions
> (in this case, how did Peirce work contribute to frames in AI)
>
> we can of course try to write automated agents to do this search for us,
>
> A semantic frame-based intelligent agent for topic detection
> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00500-015-1695-4
>
> Thank you, I hope I get around to read it all
>   :-)
>
>
> P
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 2:21 PM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> wrote:
>
>> No, thank you. Busy now with other things.
>>
>> M.
>> On 2/13/2021 8:13 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote:
>>
>> I wonder, if prompted you may become inclined, to produce a video
>> recording with a synopsis of the main chapters
>> :-)  I would invite you to give a webinar but I fear too few people would
>> benefit from the interaction, while a
>> vidoe narrative of the main points of the book will go a long way :-)
>> would you consider a webinar? or a video talk?
>>
>> PDM
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, Peirce, I think, has had an immense influence, but almost an
>>>> entirely unrecognized one.
>>>>
>>> yes thats what some folks like JS and JA have been hammering about
>>>
>>> but not on frames? Dont you think ?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Once we recognize that, we can look to much else in what Peirce offered
>>>> that can improve the KR and AI enterprise. Those are the topics of my book.
>>>> Believe me, you will enjoy it a whole lot more than the index
>>>>
>>> sure
>>>   eyeballs, all used up I am afraid-
>>> I do so much reading believe me
>>>
>>> This is why sometimes I ask for quick pointers, saves me having to wade
>>> through masses of resources
>>> My own memory about certain facts also needs refreshing
>>>
>>> will place on   the list of  books to take to the moon when I
>>> go, may have spare time then
>>> :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> PDM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 8:53 AM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Paolo,
>>>>>
>>>>> Peirce died in 1914, some 60-70 yrs before frames became a topic in
>>>>> AI. He also did not invent conceptual graphs; Sowa did, though based on
>>>>> existential graphs, Peirce's diagrammatic notations to capture his logics.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is nothing purposeful or incidental in my book not mentioning
>>>>> frames or frame languages, just as Petri nets, UML or tableau reasoners are
>>>>> not mentioned. Frames are simply not applicable to the context of the book,
>>>>> which has as its focus Peirce's logics, sign-making (semeiosis), and
>>>>> pragmatism as guides to inform KR. I, too, would be surprised if a general
>>>>> reference book on KR did not mention these topics. But, like I said, that
>>>>> is not the purpose of the book.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> On 2/13/2021 5:43 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> answering my own question: :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>  based on Sowa's article
>>>>> https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82803127.pdf
>>>>>    Peirce developed conceptual graphs to overcome the limitations of
>>>>> frames
>>>>>
>>>>> I remain surprised not to find altogether any mention of frame in a KR
>>>>> book even if its based on Peirce
>>>>> I d be interested to know if this happened incidentally or they were
>>>>> purposefully avoided
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite their limitations, some forms of frames are used in
>>>>> declarative programming even today
>>>>>
>>>>> PDM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 9:21 AM Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Mike' for your quick response'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just to spare me the cognitive cycles of looking into this, you mean
>>>>>> that Pierce managed to avoid
>>>>>> any reference to frames in relation to KR?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because from where I come from, frames were very central to AI KR
>>>>>> P
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
>>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:59 AM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Paolo,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My book is not a general reference, as I think is stated in the
>>>>>>> preface and intro, but is based on the guidance of CS Peirce and tries to
>>>>>>> adhere to the methodology he advocated, which is why I called it a
>>>>>>> 'practionary'. I recommend a couple of general sources in those same
>>>>>>> sections if you have a copy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best, Mike
>>>>>>> On 2/12/2021 6:38 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Mike B
>>>>>>> I was looking for a more recent citation than the usual
>>>>>>> references and considered your book as a general reference to point to
>>>>>>> the KR domain (looks fresh)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have finally managed to obtain a copy
>>>>>>> Bergman, Michael K., Michael K. Bergman, and Lagerstrom-Fife. *Knowledge
>>>>>>> Representation Practionary*. Springer International Publishing,
>>>>>>> 2018.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first thing I look at is the index, as it saves me from
>>>>>>> reading too much as my eyesight is precious
>>>>>>> and I cannot believe my eyes
>>>>>>> I cannot find any reference to frames neither in the glossary nor in
>>>>>>> the index
>>>>>>> how can it be?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thank you
>>>>>>> PDM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
>>>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael K. Bergman
>>>>>>> Cognonto Corporation
>>>>>>> 319.621.5225skype:michaelkbergmanhttp://cognonto.comhttp://mkbergman.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman
>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael K. Bergman
>>>>> Cognonto Corporation
>>>>> 319.621.5225skype:michaelkbergmanhttp://cognonto.comhttp://mkbergman.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman
>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Michael K. Bergman
>>>> Cognonto Corporation
>>>> 319.621.5225skype:michaelkbergmanhttp://cognonto.comhttp://mkbergman.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman
>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> --
>> __________________________________________
>>
>> Michael K. Bergman
>> Cognonto Corporation
>> 319.621.5225skype:michaelkbergmanhttp://cognonto.comhttp://mkbergman.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman
>> __________________________________________
>>
>> --
> __________________________________________
>
> Michael K. Bergman
> Cognonto Corporation
> 319.621.5225skype:michaelkbergmanhttp://cognonto.comhttp://mkbergman.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman
> __________________________________________
>
>

Received on Monday, 15 February 2021 00:59:40 UTC