- From: Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com>
- Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 09:53:36 -0600
- To: Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>
- Cc: W3C AIKR CG <public-aikr@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <5955677a-a507-3235-1e97-e9b99a8a5a77@mkbergman.com>
Hi Paola, I appreciate the challenge of having an initial interest in Peirce. To help others seeking to learn more about this amazing intellect, I wrote: https://www.mkbergman.com/2069/how-i-study-c-s-peirce/ about four years ago to capture my own journey in learning more about Charley. Since then, I would add (and start with!) Burch's fine overview of CSP: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/peirce/ I think my own Appendix A to my book is pretty good, too, and is free in the pre-release author's version. BTW, some of my other book chapters are available for free in PDF from: https://www.mkbergman.com/a-knowledge-representation-practionary/ Thanks, Mike On 2/14/2021 3:20 AM, Paola Di Maio wrote: > well I tried > :-) > > you book is valuable especially to those who are interested to learn > more about Peirce > Especially relevant to knowledge graphs, > > (How did existential graph became knowledge graphs?) > I have seen some slides...from you > > but > there are many great books to read these days > https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/iconic-logic-peirces-graphs > <https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/iconic-logic-peirces-graphs> > > and each book brings up new questions > > most students and researchers when solving problem need practical > approaches and very direct pointers > or get lost > > it helps to know what question does a specific book..chapter answer to > motivate people to read it and justify the recommendation > to librarians etc > > there are also conflicting accounts as to what ideas originated > where and how they became transformed > > so yes, we should all learn more about Peirce (and read you book!) but > given that Perice's contribution is vast and diverse, and the impact > so vast it's easier for a specialise like yourself to provide a pointer > For example there are useful references to Peirce's work in relation > to semantic networks, which can be translated to > to frames yet Peirce is rarely mentioned > > I wonder if this is why he does not get the credits he deserves and > his contribution became diluted and attributed to different authors > > In sum, while Pierces contribution is to be studied, and your book to > be read, not sure if reading books is the quickest way to solve > problems or answer immediate small questions > (in this case, how did Peirce work contribute to frames in AI) > > we can of course try to write automated agents to do this search for us, > > > A semantic frame-based intelligent agent for topic detection > > > https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00500-015-1695-4 > <https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00500-015-1695-4> > > > Thank you, I hope I get around to read it all > :-) > > > P > > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 2:21 PM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com > <mailto:mike@mkbergman.com>> wrote: > > No, thank you. Busy now with other things. > > M. > > On 2/13/2021 8:13 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote: >> I wonder, if prompted you may become inclined, to produce a video >> recording with a synopsis of the main chapters >> :-) I would invite you to give a webinar but I fear too few >> people would benefit from the interaction, while a >> vidoe narrative of the main points of the book will go a long way :-) >> would you consider a webinar? or a video talk? >> >> PDM >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Paola Di Maio >> <paoladimaio10@gmail.com <mailto:paoladimaio10@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM Mike Bergman >> <mike@mkbergman.com <mailto:mike@mkbergman.com>> wrote: >> >> >> So, Peirce, I think, has had an immense influence, but >> almost an entirely unrecognized one. >> >> yes thats what some folks like JS and JA have been hammering >> about >> >> but not on frames? Dont you think ? >> >> Once we recognize that, we can look to much else in what >> Peirce offered that can improve the KR and AI enterprise. >> Those are the topics of my book. Believe me, you will >> enjoy it a whole lot more than the index >> >> sure >> eyeballs, all used up I am afraid- >> I do so much reading believe me >> >> This is why sometimes I ask for quick pointers, saves me >> having to wade through masses of resources >> My own memory about certain facts also needs refreshing >> >> will place on the list of books to take to the moon when I >> go, may have spare time then >> :-) >> >>> >>> >>> PDM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 8:53 AM Mike Bergman >>> <mike@mkbergman.com <mailto:mike@mkbergman.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Paolo, >>> >>> Peirce died in 1914, some 60-70 yrs before frames >>> became a topic in AI. He also did not invent >>> conceptual graphs; Sowa did, though based on >>> existential graphs, Peirce's diagrammatic notations >>> to capture his logics. >>> >>> There is nothing purposeful or incidental in my book >>> not mentioning frames or frame languages, just as >>> Petri nets, UML or tableau reasoners are not >>> mentioned. Frames are simply not applicable to the >>> context of the book, which has as its focus Peirce's >>> logics, sign-making (semeiosis), and pragmatism as >>> guides to inform KR. I, too, would be surprised if a >>> general reference book on KR did not mention these >>> topics. But, like I said, that is not the purpose of >>> the book. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> On 2/13/2021 5:43 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote: >>>> answering my own question: :-) >>>> >>>> based on Sowa's article >>>> https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82803127.pdf >>>> <https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82803127.pdf> >>>> Peirce developed conceptual graphs to overcome the >>>> limitations of frames >>>> >>>> I remain surprised not to find altogether any >>>> mention of frame in a KR book even if its based on >>>> Peirce >>>> I d be interested to know if this happened >>>> incidentally or they were purposefully avoided >>>> >>>> Despite their limitations, some forms of frames are >>>> used in declarative programming even today >>>> >>>> PDM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 9:21 AM Paola Di Maio >>>> <paoladimaio10@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:paoladimaio10@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thank you Mike' for your quick response' >>>> >>>> just to spare me the cognitive cycles of >>>> looking into this, you mean that Pierce managed >>>> to avoid >>>> any reference to frames in relation to KR? >>>> >>>> Because from where I come from, frames were >>>> very central to AI KR >>>> P >>>> >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:59 AM Mike Bergman >>>> <mike@mkbergman.com >>>> <mailto:mike@mkbergman.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Paolo, >>>> >>>> My book is not a general reference, as I >>>> think is stated in the preface and intro, >>>> but is based on the guidance of CS Peirce >>>> and tries to adhere to the methodology he >>>> advocated, which is why I called it a >>>> 'practionary'. I recommend a couple of >>>> general sources in those same sections if >>>> you have a copy. >>>> >>>> Best, Mike >>>> >>>> On 2/12/2021 6:38 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote: >>>>> Dear Mike B >>>>> I was looking for a more recent citation >>>>> than the usual references and considered >>>>> your book as a general reference to point to >>>>> the KR domain (looks fresh) >>>>> >>>>> I have finally managed to obtain a copy >>>>> Bergman, Michael K., Michael K. Bergman, >>>>> and Lagerstrom-Fife. /Knowledge >>>>> Representation Practionary/. Springer >>>>> International Publishing, 2018. >>>>> >>>>> The first thing I look at is the index, as >>>>> it saves me from reading too much as my >>>>> eyesight is precious >>>>> and I cannot believe my eyes >>>>> I cannot find any reference to frames >>>>> neither in the glossary nor in the index >>>>> how can it be? >>>>> >>>>> thank you >>>>> PDM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> __________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Michael K. Bergman >>>> Cognonto Corporation >>>> 319.621.5225 >>>> skype:michaelkbergman >>>> http://cognonto.com <http://cognonto.com> >>>> http://mkbergman.com <http://mkbergman.com> >>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman> >>>> __________________________________________ >>>> >>> -- >>> __________________________________________ >>> >>> Michael K. Bergman >>> Cognonto Corporation >>> 319.621.5225 >>> skype:michaelkbergman >>> http://cognonto.com <http://cognonto.com> >>> http://mkbergman.com <http://mkbergman.com> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman> >>> __________________________________________ >>> >> -- >> __________________________________________ >> >> Michael K. Bergman >> Cognonto Corporation >> 319.621.5225 >> skype:michaelkbergman >> http://cognonto.com <http://cognonto.com> >> http://mkbergman.com <http://mkbergman.com> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman> >> __________________________________________ >> > -- > __________________________________________ > > Michael K. Bergman > Cognonto Corporation > 319.621.5225 > skype:michaelkbergman > http://cognonto.com <http://cognonto.com> > http://mkbergman.com <http://mkbergman.com> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman> > __________________________________________ > -- __________________________________________ Michael K. Bergman Cognonto Corporation 319.621.5225 skype:michaelkbergman http://cognonto.com http://mkbergman.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman __________________________________________
Received on Sunday, 14 February 2021 15:53:53 UTC