- From: Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>
- Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:20:41 +0800
- To: Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com>
- Cc: W3C AIKR CG <public-aikr@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAMXe=SpRZAMmF5f=V___-R=xzOaYgsi+9D0FJxuPkgjb3o_-YA@mail.gmail.com>
well I tried :-) you book is valuable especially to those who are interested to learn more about Peirce Especially relevant to knowledge graphs, (How did existential graph became knowledge graphs?) I have seen some slides...from you but there are many great books to read these days https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/iconic-logic-peirces-graphs and each book brings up new questions most students and researchers when solving problem need practical approaches and very direct pointers or get lost it helps to know what question does a specific book..chapter answer to motivate people to read it and justify the recommendation to librarians etc there are also conflicting accounts as to what ideas originated where and how they became transformed so yes, we should all learn more about Peirce (and read you book!) but given that Perice's contribution is vast and diverse, and the impact so vast it's easier for a specialise like yourself to provide a pointer For example there are useful references to Peirce's work in relation to semantic networks, which can be translated to to frames yet Peirce is rarely mentioned I wonder if this is why he does not get the credits he deserves and his contribution became diluted and attributed to different authors In sum, while Pierces contribution is to be studied, and your book to be read, not sure if reading books is the quickest way to solve problems or answer immediate small questions (in this case, how did Peirce work contribute to frames in AI) we can of course try to write automated agents to do this search for us, A semantic frame-based intelligent agent for topic detection https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00500-015-1695-4 Thank you, I hope I get around to read it all :-) P On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 2:21 PM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> wrote: > No, thank you. Busy now with other things. > > M. > On 2/13/2021 8:13 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote: > > I wonder, if prompted you may become inclined, to produce a video > recording with a synopsis of the main chapters > :-) I would invite you to give a webinar but I fear too few people would > benefit from the interaction, while a > vidoe narrative of the main points of the book will go a long way :-) > would you consider a webinar? or a video talk? > > PDM > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> So, Peirce, I think, has had an immense influence, but almost an >>> entirely unrecognized one. >>> >> yes thats what some folks like JS and JA have been hammering about >> >> but not on frames? Dont you think ? >> >> >>> Once we recognize that, we can look to much else in what Peirce offered >>> that can improve the KR and AI enterprise. Those are the topics of my book. >>> Believe me, you will enjoy it a whole lot more than the index >>> >> sure >> eyeballs, all used up I am afraid- >> I do so much reading believe me >> >> This is why sometimes I ask for quick pointers, saves me having to wade >> through masses of resources >> My own memory about certain facts also needs refreshing >> >> will place on the list of books to take to the moon when I >> go, may have spare time then >> :-) >> >> >>> >>> PDM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 8:53 AM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Paolo, >>>> >>>> Peirce died in 1914, some 60-70 yrs before frames became a topic in AI. >>>> He also did not invent conceptual graphs; Sowa did, though based on >>>> existential graphs, Peirce's diagrammatic notations to capture his logics. >>>> >>>> There is nothing purposeful or incidental in my book not mentioning >>>> frames or frame languages, just as Petri nets, UML or tableau reasoners are >>>> not mentioned. Frames are simply not applicable to the context of the book, >>>> which has as its focus Peirce's logics, sign-making (semeiosis), and >>>> pragmatism as guides to inform KR. I, too, would be surprised if a general >>>> reference book on KR did not mention these topics. But, like I said, that >>>> is not the purpose of the book. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> On 2/13/2021 5:43 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote: >>>> >>>> answering my own question: :-) >>>> >>>> based on Sowa's article >>>> https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82803127.pdf >>>> Peirce developed conceptual graphs to overcome the limitations of >>>> frames >>>> >>>> I remain surprised not to find altogether any mention of frame in a KR >>>> book even if its based on Peirce >>>> I d be interested to know if this happened incidentally or they were >>>> purposefully avoided >>>> >>>> Despite their limitations, some forms of frames are used in declarative >>>> programming even today >>>> >>>> PDM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 9:21 AM Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you Mike' for your quick response' >>>>> >>>>> just to spare me the cognitive cycles of looking into this, you mean >>>>> that Pierce managed to avoid >>>>> any reference to frames in relation to KR? >>>>> >>>>> Because from where I come from, frames were very central to AI KR >>>>> P >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. >>>>> www.avast.com >>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:59 AM Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Paolo, >>>>>> >>>>>> My book is not a general reference, as I think is stated in the >>>>>> preface and intro, but is based on the guidance of CS Peirce and tries to >>>>>> adhere to the methodology he advocated, which is why I called it a >>>>>> 'practionary'. I recommend a couple of general sources in those same >>>>>> sections if you have a copy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, Mike >>>>>> On 2/12/2021 6:38 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Mike B >>>>>> I was looking for a more recent citation than the usual >>>>>> references and considered your book as a general reference to point to >>>>>> the KR domain (looks fresh) >>>>>> >>>>>> I have finally managed to obtain a copy >>>>>> Bergman, Michael K., Michael K. Bergman, and Lagerstrom-Fife. *Knowledge >>>>>> Representation Practionary*. Springer International Publishing, 2018. >>>>>> >>>>>> The first thing I look at is the index, as it saves me from >>>>>> reading too much as my eyesight is precious >>>>>> and I cannot believe my eyes >>>>>> I cannot find any reference to frames neither in the glossary nor in >>>>>> the index >>>>>> how can it be? >>>>>> >>>>>> thank you >>>>>> PDM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. >>>>>> www.avast.com >>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> __________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael K. Bergman >>>>>> Cognonto Corporation >>>>>> 319.621.5225skype:michaelkbergmanhttp://cognonto.comhttp://mkbergman.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman >>>>>> __________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> __________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Michael K. Bergman >>>> Cognonto Corporation >>>> 319.621.5225skype:michaelkbergmanhttp://cognonto.comhttp://mkbergman.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman >>>> __________________________________________ >>>> >>>> -- >>> __________________________________________ >>> >>> Michael K. Bergman >>> Cognonto Corporation >>> 319.621.5225skype:michaelkbergmanhttp://cognonto.comhttp://mkbergman.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman >>> __________________________________________ >>> >>> -- > __________________________________________ > > Michael K. Bergman > Cognonto Corporation > 319.621.5225skype:michaelkbergmanhttp://cognonto.comhttp://mkbergman.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman > __________________________________________ > >
Received on Sunday, 14 February 2021 09:21:32 UTC