RE: Bliss translation for W3C

Dear Matthew
Thank you for your note and please do defer to the Bliss team for their symbols as I am aware that my efforts were done without the correct sizing and positioning for the combination words that were not in the published symbol set and it is so important they are correct as Blissymbolics has a grammar.  Pictographic symbols tend to have rather limited adaptations that vary depending on the symbol set when it comes to word for word translations hence the summarisation and tendency to use the active tense.

I do hope it all works.
Best wishes
E.A.


-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Atkinson <matkinson@tpgi.com>
Sent: 14 August 2023 13:11
To: E.A. Draffan <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk>; Russell Galvin <russell@blissymbolics.org>; Margareta Jennische <margareta.jennische@uu.se>; Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Cc: Adapt tf <public-adapt@w3.org>; shirley.mcnaughton@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Bliss translation for W3C

CAUTION: This e-mail originated outside the University of Southampton.

Thank you, E.A.!

The document you've prepared is very helpful and informative (the alt text is a great addition for us), thank you. I'm sorry for my very slow reply (both Janina and I are in the process of moving home, and I let my action to reply to you, following our group's review of the document, slip through the net).

Our goal is to produce double-sided printed cards to demonstrate the application of two different symbol sets to the same text. Now we have your draft, we can work on balancing the word count with the physical space we have available, and refine the layout and text as needed. We envision having the text, with the symbols set above relevant words, on both sides of the card, so the readers can get a sense of what content on the web might look like when adapted in this way.

For next steps, we'll do some layout work, with the size of cards we anticipate using, to find a balance between the amount of text, and symbol size. Whilst our primary aim is to give people who don't use symbols an impression of what their use might look like, we're keen to be as authentic as we can. We anticipate trimming the text slightly; we may come back to you and/or the Bliss team, if that's OK, when we've done so, to ensure the symbols are still appropriate.

Thanks again for your help; we'll post updates on this thread as we have them.

Best regards,


Matthew
--
Matthew Tylee Atkinson (he/him)
--
Principal Accessibility Engineer
TPG Interactive
https://www.tpgi.com/

A Vispero Company
https://www.vispero.com/

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On 31/07/2023, 22:16, "E.A. Draffan" <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:


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Dear All


Please forgive any mistakes in the translation of content to symbols and if this is not what you were thinking of in terms of supporting developers please be honest as I have just enjoyed trying to see how far it is possible to make sense without text simplification. It is just a draft and I am hoping experts will check for mistakes and adapt it all to suit your specific needs.


I have used Microsoft Word so that the symbol images have alt text as a way of providing the translation of the content and everything can be changed.


Best wishes
E.A.


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Galvin <russell@blissymbolics.org <mailto:russell@blissymbolics.org>>
Sent: 31 July 2023 14:14
To: Margareta Jennische <margareta.jennische@uu.se <mailto:margareta.jennische@uu.se>>; Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net <mailto:janina@rednote.net>>
Cc: E.A. Draffan <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>; Adapt tf <public-adapt@w3.org <mailto:public-adapt@w3.org>>; shirley.mcnaughton@gmail.com <mailto:shirley.mcnaughton@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: SV: SV: Bliss translation for W3C


CAUTION: This e-mail originated outside the University of Southampton.


Here is my suggested simplification for the translation:


We must support Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC) in various kinds of internet content, for instance in nested media "Chapter"
markings because AAC users tend to rely on media, not long blocks of text. As a general rule, AAC users are unlikely to want long books like "War and Peace" expressed in their AAC symbol set of choice. Rather, they tend to look for AAC support in media and in instructions such as recipes.


I have cc'd Shirley on this as she is likely more used to doing this kind of thing from English.


Russell


On 2023-07-31 05:43, Margareta Jennische wrote:
> Hi, I understand your points, it's more the lack of specific Bliss vocabulary that is my concern. I will make a try, and see how far I succeed. I am however sorry to say, it will take some time, because of some severe problems in my family at present.
>
> Sincerely
> Margareta Jennische
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net <mailto:janina@rednote.net>>
> Skickat: den 28 juli 2023 19:45
> Till: Russell Galvin <russell@blissymbolics.org
> <mailto:russell@blissymbolics.org>>
> Kopia: Margareta Jennische <margareta.jennische@uu.se
> <mailto:margareta.jennische@uu.se>>; E.A. Draffan <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk
> <mailto:ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>; Adapt tf <public-adapt@w3.org
> <mailto:public-adapt@w3.org>>
> Ämne: Re: SV: Bliss translation for W3C
>
> +E.A. Draffan and our email archive list ...
>
> Thanksx, Russell, and thanks Margareta! I've cc'd E.A. Draffan because she was making similar suggestions.
>
> Russell: I'm happy for you to simplify the text.
>
> I have only one caution about simplification. We need to remember our audience in this project is web developers, including softgware engineers who would be enhancing major browsers as well as content creators. It is thus important that our text explain why we're asking for the things we're asking in HTML. The point is that exactly the same text renders differently in different symbol sets. That needs to jump off the page at them--same words, different symbols.
>
> So, while our goal is to include AAC users in web content, we need the developer community on board to achieve that goal. The audience here is not (necessarily) AAC users themselves.
>
> And, to answer a separate, though related question from E.A., we can use whatever size paper makes the most sense to reasonably convey both text and graphics. We're not limited by any stock paper size.
>
> hth
>
> Janina
>
> Russell Galvin writes:
>> Hi Margareta,
>> Thank you for helping out.
>> For "e.g." we could leave that in as it is a convention for a Latin
>> phrase or we could use "for example" as the English to translate from.
>> I am copying this to Janina who wrote the text and is the best person
>> to know how much to simplify it or not.
>> Janina, if you would like me to take a crack at a simplified version,
>> I could do that.
>> Russell
>>
>> On 28/07/2023 5:50 a.m., Margareta Jennische wrote:
>>
>> Hi Russell,
>>
>> Of course I would like to do my best to help you with a translation.
>> When I read the draft, I felt it would be easier, if you can make the
>> sentences simpler, and no e.g., I don't think
>>
>> We have that in Bliss. Do we?- I have marked in black in your text
>> below, pars that I find difficult, and even not easy to understand.
>>
>>
>> So please if you can, a somewhat easier text to start with, and I
>> will work on it.
>>
>> All the best!
>>
>> Margarea
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Från: Russell Galvin [1]<russell@blissymbolics.org
>> <mailto:russell@blissymbolics.org>>
>>
>> Skickat: den 26 juli 2023 20:05
>> Till: Margareta Jennische [2]<margareta.jennische@uu.se
>> <mailto:margareta.jennische@uu.se>>
>> Ämne: Bliss translation for W3C
>>
>>
>> Hi Margareta,
>> I hope this finds you well.
>> The W3C group that I continue to work with is talking about having
>> cards printed up for their upcoming annual meeting that would have a
>> Bliss translation of some text on one side and the ARASAAC
>> translation of the same text on the other side. The text refers to
>> the goal of providing symbol implementation of chapter or section
>> markings in linear media such as video. The idea really originated
>> from the Youtube functionality where people who post videos can put
>> in markers indicating where different sections begin. An example
>> would be a musical concert and the start of each song or piece of
>> music is marked and can be jumped to directly. Of course, the person
>> I immediately thought of as the best for the task was you! Would you
>> be able to do this? It isn't very long. Below is a first draft. It
>> will likely change so please don't spend time on it at this point, I
>> am just providing it to give you an idea of what it would entail.
>> Please let me know what you think.
>> Thanks,
>> Russell
>> ---
>> Draft text:
>> We must support Augmentative and alternative communication (AAC) in
>> various kinds of web content, for instance in nested media "Chapter"
>> markings because AAC users tend to rely heavily on media, not long
>> blocks of text. As a general rule, AAC users are unlikely to want
>> "War and Peace" expressed in their AAC symbol set of choice. Rather,
>> they tend to look for AAC support in media and in procedural content
>> such as sets of instructions, e.g. in recipes.
>>
>>
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>> ecs.soton.ac.uk%7Cd7b8cde75bbd41679fb708db9cbf84f4%7C4a5378f929f44d3e
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>> 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7
>> C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2Foy%2Ba1%2B8e471MfOCGCuIjBlxMFWVFMlsgSwBJNhhEA
>> A%3D&reserved=0
>> <http://www/

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>> 89669d03ada9d8%7C0%7C0%7C638276118608210788%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8e
>> yJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3
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>> 40ecs.soton.ac.uk%7C42825ec43ea24389628c08db91c8108e%7C4a5378f929f44d
>> 3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0%7C0%7C638264060684816735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb
>> 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D
>> %7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oq0qMHU6MpeXNcZP2ETt6TlgubcXvynLQpFv6ozjCYc%3D
>> &reserved=0
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>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:russell@blissymbolics.org
>> <mailto:russell@blissymbolics.org>
>> 2. mailto:margareta.jennische@uu.se
>> <mailto:margareta.jennische@uu.se>
>> 3.
>> http://www/.

>> uu.se%2Fom-uu%2Fdataskydd-personuppgifter%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cead%40ecs
>> .soton.ac.uk%7Cd7b8cde75bbd41679fb708db9cbf84f4%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe8
>> 9669d03ada9d8%7C0%7C0%7C638276118608367009%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey
>> JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C30
>> 00%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mXlhKiPw6fRwwLD8p9CLsFuuDOMzh86eRxbyAS5ueAQ%3D&rese
>> rved=0
>> <http://www/

>> .uu.se%2Fom-uu%2Fdataskydd-personuppgifter%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cead%40ec
>> s.soton.ac.uk%7Cd7b8cde75bbd41679fb708db9cbf84f4%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe
>> 89669d03ada9d8%7C0%7C0%7C638276118608367009%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8e
>> yJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3
>> 000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mXlhKiPw6fRwwLD8p9CLsFuuDOMzh86eRxbyAS5ueAQ%3D&res
>> erved=0>
>> 4.
>> http://www/.

>> uu.se%2Fen%2Fabout-uu%2Fdata-protection-policy&data=05%7C01%7Cead%40e
>> cs.soton.ac.uk%7C42825ec43ea24389628c08db91c8108e%7C4a5378f929f44d3eb
>> e89669d03ada9d8%7C0%7C0%7C638264060684816735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8
>> eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C
>> 3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oq0qMHU6MpeXNcZP2ETt6TlgubcXvynLQpFv6ozjCYc%3D&re
>> served=0
> --
>
> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers)
> Accessibility Consultant
> https://link/

> edin.com%2Fin%2Fjsajka&data=05%7C01%7Cead%40ecs.soton.ac.uk%7C42825ec4
> 3ea24389628c08db91c8108e%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0%7C0%7C
> 638264060684816735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjo
> iV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9%2B6eBj
> ssE3HHSj5NTfpG7T%2FniK7ctHIF39JcjBfXzO8%3D&reserved=0
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> (WAI) Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa>
>
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> https://www/.

> linuxfoundation.org%2Fboard-of-directors-2%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cead%40ecs
> .soton.ac.uk%7C42825ec43ea24389628c08db91c8108e%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89
> 669d03ada9d8%7C0%7C0%7C638264060684816735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW
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> 7C%7C%7C&sdata=FMnO23KBYlTTCHcOp1jshnyPVjRgzzPLxyuyEZQXz9Q%3D&reserved
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>
>
> VARNING: Klicka inte på länkar och öppna inte bilagor om du inte känner igen avsändaren och vet att innehållet är säkert.
> CAUTION: Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> När du har kontakt med oss på Uppsala universitet med e-post så
> innebär det att vi behandlar dina personuppgifter. För att läsa mer om
> hur vi gör det kan du läsa här:
> http://www.u/

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Received on Monday, 14 August 2023 18:19:15 UTC