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Re: Alt-SvcB

From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2022 13:29:14 -0700
Message-id: <0BE7FC0E-D294-453B-A9EB-01825447168F@apple.com>
Cc: David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>, ietf-http-wg@w3.org
To: Ian Swett <ianswett@google.com>
The way I’d look at this is that we should be fine keeping the use of Alt-Svc for existing (and what will become legacy) clients to upgrade to h3, but we should not use it for any new protocol discovery. I.e., when we have an HTTP version that needs some transport other than TCP and QUIC, we shouldn’t plan on using Alt-Svc for that. So, our timeline should be to make sure clients can do HTTPS RRs by the time we replace QUIC, which should give us time.

Tommy

> On Oct 25, 2022, at 1:21 PM, Ian Swett <ianswett@google.com> wrote:
> 
> I would second David's statement.  In the world we live in today, we still need to use the Alt-Svc header for a substantial number of users.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 2:31 PM David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi Martin,
>> 
>> Thanks for writing this up. Overall I think the long-term strategy makes sense, but I think it's too early to obsolete/deprecate 7838. It's fairly common for browsers to use getaddrinfo() on some platforms and that does not provide access to HTTPS RRs. In those cases, 7838 is the only path to using HTTP/3, so I expect browsers to keep using it for quite some time. Marking 7838 as obsolete doesn't reflect that reality.
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 5:10 PM Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net <mailto:mt@lowentropy.net>> wrote:
>>> Hey everyone,
>>> 
>>> The Alt-Svc design team has been very busy recently and making some progress on working out an alternative alternative services design.
>>> 
>>> I just posted https://martinthomson.github.io/alt-svcb/draft-thomson-httpbis-alt-svcb.html as a -00 draft.  This outlines the alternative design that we've been exploring in the design team.
>>> 
>>> The basic idea is split into two procedures:
>>> 
>>> 1. Use: When an Alt-SvcB field or ALTSVCB frame is encountered, the client looks for HTTPS records for the provided name in the DNS and creates a connection using what it learns.
>>> 2. Reuse: When a client that has previously used an alternative service connects again, it remembers the HTTPS record that worked.  It performs a regular HTTPS record lookup for the server - not using the alternative that it learned, but the name from the URI - but it prefers the alternative it previously used if that alternative appears in the results.
>>> 
>>> The draft explains in more detail and goes into some of the implications of the design.
>>> 
>>> This is not done by any imagining.  We have a bunch of open issues at https://github.com/martinthomson/alt-svcb/issues that do require some amount of input.  But we think that this is a promising approach and would appreciate more input.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Martin
>>> 


Received on Tuesday, 25 October 2022 20:29:50 UTC

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