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Minutes, 24 June 2004 WS Desc telcon

From: Jonathan Marsh <jmarsh@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:33:39 -0700
Message-ID: <DF1BAFBC28DF694A823C9A8400E71EA20409B442@RED-MSG-30.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
To: "Web Services Description" <www-ws-desc@w3.org>

Minutes, Web Services Description WG telcon
24 June 2004

Attendence:
 Erik Ackerman          Lexmark
 David Booth            W3C
 Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
 Helen Chen             Agfa-Gevaert N. V.
 Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
 Glen Daniels           Sonic Software
 Paul Downey            British Telecommunications
 Hugo Haas              W3C
 Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
 Jacek Kopecky          DERI
 Amelia Lewis           TIBCO
 Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
 Josephine Micallef     Telcordia/SAIC 
 Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
 Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
 Mark Nottingham        BEA Systems
 David Orchard          BEA Systems
 Bijan Parsia           University of Maryland MIND Lab
 Arthur Ryman           IBM
 Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
 Jerry Thrasher         Lexmark
 William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
 Asir Vedamuthu         webMethods
 Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
 Umit Yalcinalp         Oracle
 Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.

Regrets:
 Youenn Fablet          Canon
 Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
 Peter Madziak          Agfa-Gevaert N. V.
 Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon

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Agenda

1.  Assign scribe.  Lucky minute taker for this week is one of:
      Erik Ackerman, Adi Sakala, Jean-Jacques Moreau, Umit Yalcinalp,
      Igor Sedukhin, Dale Moberg, Paul Downey, Hugo Haas

- Erik

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2.  Approval of minutes:
  - June 17 [.1] 

[.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0192.html

Approved.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
3.  Review of Action items [.1].
PENDING   2004-04-01: Marsh will get schema tf going.
DONE [.4] 2004-04-29: Part 1 editors to adopt Jacek's "purpose of the 
                      binding" text, without "interchangeable"
                      endpoints, and using "confidentiality" (or 
                      similar) instead of TLS.
?ED       2004-05-19: Editors to include in the primer an example 
                      that uses MTOM.  (Issue 72) 
DONE [.4] 2004-05-19: Editors to make propogation of modules and f&p
                      use the nearing enclosing scope.  (Issue 180) 
DONE [.3] 2004-05-19: Editors to fix component model to remove 
                      default* properties, use mapping from syntax 
                      instead.  (Issue 182)
?ED       2004-05-20: Editors to incorporate Hugo's full potato 
                      proposal.  (Issue 54)
  Hugo notes part hasn't been incorporated yet:  see
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0244.html

?ED       2004-05-20: David Orchard to update HTTP binding to 
                      include discussion of how to generate an 
                      accepts header from schema annotations 
                      conformant to the media types extension 
                      document, and to use outputSerialization 
                      based on that information.  
DONE      2004-05-20: Editors to incorporate http:{properties} into 
                      binding.
  ACTION: Editors to factor http:{properties} into separate section 
          referred to by SOAP and HTTP bindings.

DONE [.3] 2004-05-21: Sanjiva to implement the resolution that 
                      @soapaction not there means no soapaction.  
                      (Issue 1)
DONE [.3] 2004-05-21: Part 3 Editors to add a statement to relate 
                      each of the two soap meps to wsdl meps. 
                      (Issue 191)
?ED       2004-05-21: Editors to add ednotes to the spec to 
                      indicate areas that had contention.  (Issue 
                      190)
DONE      2004-05-21: Editors to remove @separator from HTTP 
                      binding.  (Issue 190)
PENDING   2004-05-21: DaveO to write up a scenario to motivate path
                      creation on a per-operation basis.  (Issue 
                      190)
DONE      2004-05-21: Editors to write up that we allow 
                      http:version etc. in the soap binding when 
                      the protocol is http.  (Issue 190) 
DONE [.3] 2004-05-21: Editors to update part 3 to say that for SOAP 
                      Response MEPs the URI will be generated 
                      following the HTTP binding rules for 
                      generating a URI (for GET).  (Issue 61) 
DONE [.3] 2004-05-21: Editors to update soap binding default rules 
                      to allow use of MTOM. (Issue 184)
?ED       2004-05-27: Editors to add http:faultSerialization 
                      attribute.
PENDING   2004-05-27: DaveO will write up better description of 
                      this issue (189).
DONE [.5] 2004-06-10: Jacek to review XMLP specs.
?ED       2004-06-10: Editors should correct issues 208, 213, 
                      215, come back to WG if there are any 
                      questions.
PENDING   2004-06-17: alewis to champion 197.
DONE [.6] 2004-06-17: markN to put together strawman for 210.
DONE [.8] 2004-06-17: markN to identify where clarification is 
                      needed for 211.
DONE [.9] 2004-06-17: PaulD to propose text for part 1 to cover 218.
PENDING   2004-06-17: jmarsh to draft proposal to make wsdl strings 
                      refer to xml 1.1 and clarifying note.
?ED       2004-06-17: Editor action to check that multiple style 
                      values are allowed.
DONE [.7] 2004-06-17: Mark to make a proposal for issue 212 on the 
                      list.
?ED       2004-06-17: Editors to adopt Mark's proposal for 216, but 
                      reword using MUST.
?ED       2004-06-17: Editors to incorporate editorial fix addressing 
                      issue 222.
PENDING   2004-06-17: Mark come up with a proposal for extension 
                      property namespacing.
?ED       2004-06-17: Editors to incorporate proposed resolution for 
                      223 and 224.
DONE [.2] 2004-06-17: Marsh to forward Issue 207 proposal to XMLP WG.
?ED       2004-06-17: Editors to incorporate David Booth's clarification
                      in section 8.3.

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-dist-app/2004Jun/0055.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0229.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0188.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0187.html
[.6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0195.html
[.7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0198.html
[.8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0194.html
[.9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0219.html

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4.  Administrivia
  a. - August 2-4 (London)
       Logistics [.1], registration [.2].
     - September 14-16 (Toronto) [.3]
     - November (West Coast) investigating webMethods Sunnyvale, CA.

November 8-10 is the preference for most.  webMethods to confirm that
these dates work for them.

  b. WSDL 2.0 Last Call game plan [.5]
     - 2 hour telcons for this and next week.  Sorry about Canada Day...
  c. XMLP Last Call comments [.6]

Some discussion on whether the ability to escape xop:Include was
necessary and the performance implications involved.  WG agreed to
forward Jacek's comments to XMLP WG, noting that the first impacts
description, the other is a general comment on their design that doesn't
have obvious WSDL implications.

ACTION: Jacek to repackage XMLP LC comments and send them to the XMLP 
        group on WS-Desc's behalf.

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/4/04-08-f2f.htm
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2004Mar/0064.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2004May/0000.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0109.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0108.html
[.6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0187.html

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5.  Task Force Status.
 a. Media type description
  - 1st Working Draft Published [.1]
 b. MTOM/XOP
  - Last Call Published [.2]
 c. QA & Testing
  - Suggested QA plan [.3]
  - More details from Arthur [.4]
  - Interop bake-off
 d. Schema versioning
  - Waiting to hear back from Schema on my draft "charter."
  - Henry's validate-twice write-up [.5]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-xml-media-types-20040608/
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0052.html
[.3]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/att-0029/QA_Oper
ational_Checklist.htm
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0037.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0019.html

------------------------------------------------------------------
6.  New Issues.  Issues list [.1].
  - Mark N's comments [.2]
  - Description of Binding Operation component [editorial] (Mark) [.3]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0138.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0200.html

------------------------------------------------------------------
7.  Issue 130: Need async request/response HTTP binding [.1]
  - Revived proposal [.2]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x130
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0205.html

Discussion on how best to accomplish this.  We find a more concrete
proposal from DaveO at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/0029.html.
Sanjiva prefers doing this in a new SOAP binding.

Straw Poll: Are we interested in adding async capability into WSDL? 
        Yes: 15 No: 3 Abstain: 5 
Several express their desire to keep this as lightweight as possible.

ACTION: David O will update his proposal for adding async capability.


------------------------------------------------------------------
8.  Issue 167: Synchronize pseudo-schema [.1]
  - Jonathan's summary of state [.2]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x167
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0207.html

Discovered that Part 1 and Part 3 are inconsistent in allowing f&p on
message references and fault references.  Discussion expanded to a more
comprehensive plan for allowing features and properties throughout WSDL.
Combined this issue with discussion on Issue 157.

RESOLUTION: Allow f&p on services and endpoints.
ACTION: Editors to add f&p in services and endpoints. 

NEW ISSUE: Should f&p be allowed in more places (any component, 
           messageRef and faultRef components?) 

Straw Poll: Should we allow f&p on message references and fault
references,
            and binding message references? 
 Yes: 15 No: 2 Abstain: 6 

RESOLUTION: Add f&p to message reference, fault references, and binding
message reference components.

[updated] ACTION: Editors to add f&p in services and endpoints,
                and message reference, fault reference, and binding
                message reference components.

RESOLUTION: Close issue 157 
RESOLUTION: Close issue 167 

ACTION: Editors to synchronize specs, schema, pseudo-schema on where f&p

        can appear

------------------------------------------------------------------
9.  Issue 157: f&p at the service level [.1]
  - Glen's proposal [.2] - simply allow f&p markup in <service>
  - Hugo's proposal [.3] to also allow f&p markup in <endpoint>

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x157
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Mar/0186.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0046.html

See above.

------------------------------------------------------------------
10. Issue 160: Formalize processing model [.1]
  - Jacek's proposal [.2]
  - Jonathan's interpretation of Jacek's proposal [.3]
  - David's counterproposal [.4]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x160
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Feb/0121.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0206.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0213.html

Preference for Jonathan's formulation over DBooth's.  Lingering concerns
over testability may surface later as the test suite coalesces.

RESOLUTION: Close issue 160 
ACTION: Editors to incorporate Jonathan's resolution to issue 160.

------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Issue 169: Syntax for webMethod - property or attribute? [.1]
  - Issue obsolete? [.2]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x169
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0231.html

Some confusion over what the status quo is.  No webMethod attribute in
the spec today, but nothing prevents you from using property markup for
this.  David still has an issue with the syntax, and the relation to his
useOperationWebMethod attribute proposal.

NEW ISSUE: useOperationWebMethod proposal. 
ACTION: DaveO to re-present useOperationWebMethod proposal. 
ACTION: DaveO to re-present webMethod syntax issue.

------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Issue 209: Reference frag ids from media type registration [.1]
  - Reassign as editorial - the link is simply obsolete.

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x209

RESOLUTION: Reassign 209 as editorial. close by referring to editors. 
ACTION: Editors to fix media-type reg frag id link, per 209.

------------------------------------------------------------------
13. Issue 214: Refine "properties" terminology [.1]
  - Intractable? [.2]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x214
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0234.html

Some discussion, Mark will post some suggestions to keep the thread
live.

Out of time.

------------------------------------------------------------------
14. Issue 219: Actual value vs. normalized value [.1]
  - Change actual value to [normalized value]?

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x219

------------------------------------------------------------------
15. Issue 220: Document interface extension semantics [.1]
  - Need concrete proposal - suggest deferring.

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x220

------------------------------------------------------------------
16. Issue 225: Non-XML type system extensibility. [.1]
  - Mark's revised proposals [.2]
  - Roberto's preferred text [.3] 

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x225
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0174.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0169.html

------------------------------------------------------------------
17. Issue 112: New headers/body style? [.1]
  - AD feature proposal (Dave, Glen, Yaron) [.2]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x112
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Jun/0225.html

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Leftovers:
------------------------------------------------------------------
18. XML 1.1 issues
  - Issue 177: Normative dependence on XML Schema 1.0 precludes 
               XML 1.1 [.1]
  - ACTION: jmarsh to draft proposal to make wsdl strings 
            refer to xml 1.1 and clarifying note.

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x177

------------------------------------------------------------------
19. Issue 212: Explain using bindings across all operations [.1]
  - ACTION: Mark to make a proposal for issue 212 on the list.

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x212
Received on Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:33:45 GMT

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