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Minutes of the June 19th WS Desc telcon

From: Lily Liu <lily.liu@webmethods.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:14:55 -0700
Message-ID: <6F87C61ED489C345BC2B71741C41EE5B010EF83A@mailwest>
To: www-ws-desc@w3.org


Minutes of W3C WSDWG Conference Call, June 19th, 2003

Present:

 Erik Ackerman          Lexmark
 Mike Ballantyne        Electronic Data Systems
 David Booth            W3C
 Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
 Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
 Alan Davies            SeeBeyond
 Youenn Fablet          Canon
 Steve Graham           Global Grid Forum
 Jacek Kopecky          Systinet
 Sandeep Kumar          Cisco Systems
 Philippe Le Hégaret    W3C
 Amelia Lewis           TIBCO
 Steve Lind             AT&T
 Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
 Lily Liu               webMethods
 Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
 Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
 Bijan Parsia           University of Maryland MIND Lab
 Arthur Ryman           IBM
 Jeffrey Schlimmer      Microsoft
 Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
 William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
 Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
 Umit Yalcinalp         Oracle
 Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.

 Regrets:

 Glen Daniels           Macromedia
 Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
 Ingo Melzer            DaimlerChrysler
 Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
 Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
 Adi Sakala             IONA Technologies
 Jerry Thrasher         Lexmark

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Agenda

1.  Assign scribe.  

	Scribe: Lily Liu

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2.  Approval of minutes:
  - June 12 telcon [.1].

[.1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/att-0027/proto.html

  APPROVED
	
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3.  Review of Action items [.1].

PENDING   2003-03-13: Don will write a proposal for annotating schema
                      with part information.

PENDING   2003-03-27: Philippe write up a proposal for embedding binary
                      data types in schema

PENDING   2003-05-13: DaveO to send a motivating example for R131.

PENDING   2003-05-13: Jeffsch, Sanjiva, Glen, Umit, JJM to come up with
                      a proposal to get rid with the message construct,
                      and add programming hints.

PENDING   2003-05-14: Kevin to contact Sanjiva and try to merge 
                      proposals.
<scribe> Sanjiva's proposal may be able to incorporate Kevin's 

DONE [.2] 2003-06-05: Jonathan to see what is the problem with 
                      substgrps.

DONE      2003-06-12: Bijan to look at test assertions in RDF.
* Philippe notes that DTD is only for validation and can be extended anyway
<scribe> Bijan and Arthur to look into the test assertions more
<scribe> editors to do some formal markups in the spec
<scribe> Bijan and Arthur will do a prototype off the markups
<scribe> Arthur may use wsdl 1.1 validator as a start point

PENDING   2003-06-12: Jacek to synthesize the different approaches 
                      to solving issue 64.

PENDING   2003-06-12: Arthur to summarize his concerns about Umit's
                      proposal by email. 

DONE [.3] 2003-06-12: Dbooth to get F2F registration page up and 
                      update logistics page.
<scribe> F2F registration page is up

DONE      2003-06-12: Part 1 editors to change the wording for
                      targetResource with JJM proposal.
<scribe> targetResource rewording in the spec is done

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0051.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2003Jun/0027.html

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4.  Administrivia
  a. July FTF logistics [.1], registration [.2]

[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/3/05/f2fJulyLogistics.htm
[.2]
http://cgi.w3.org/Register/selectUser.pl?_w3c_meetingName=WSAWG_WSDWG_20
0307

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5.  Task Force Status.
 a. Properties and Features (dormant)

 b. Patterns
<scribe> Patterns: will find out the IP status, by July F2F
<scribe> Jonathan: we need to analyze more on pattern characteristics
<scribe> Umit: the TF made a big progress on recognizing/analyzing/writing
down the patterns
<scribe> Umit: does not know what are the alternatives
<jeffsch> Could the patterns task force make a presentation at the upcoming
f2f?
<scribe> David: wants more participation
<sanjiva> q+
<scribe> Sanjiva: worried about how the Patterns proposal will impact the
spec
<scribe> Sanjiva: We are not agreed on out bound operations
Lily> David: Patterns TF started out on request-response patterns
<scribe> David: we need to be clear about the pros and cons of a broader or
a narrower definition
<scribe> David: Sanjiva was concerned about specific patterns
<scribe> David: many patterns are recognized in the TF proposal. That does
not mean the TF is recommending all of them for the spec

 c. Attributes

 d. QA & Testing

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6.  New Issues.  Merged issues list [.1].
  - Rename "targetResource" to "target"? [.2] "resource"? [.3]

[.1]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/issues/wsd-issues.html 
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0044.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0048.html

<jjm> +1 to renaming to "resource"
<umit> +1 to not changing targetResource 
<SteveLind> +1 to no change
* WilliamV proposes targetForCriticism
<dbooth> +1
<scribe> No action needed
<scribe> We will drop the renaming issue

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7.  Using RDF in WSDL [.1].  Jonathan examining the usability of
    substitution groups with pre-defined XML vocabularies. [.2]

[.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003May/0076.html
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0051.html

<JacekK> q+
<scribe> Jonathan: experimented with the extension
<scribe> Jacek: proposes to add specific wrapper elements for signatures
<scribe> Jacek: wrapper elements are orthogonal to general extensions
<scribe> Roberto: prefers to remove the substitution groups and go back to
using element wildcards
<scribe> Jacek: does not like to have two ways to define the same thing
<JacekK> +1 to poll
<sgg> +1 to poll
* JacekK thinks the poll could include the third option
<scribe> Jonathan: poll?
<scribe> Umit: needs more time to think about this
<scribe> Jonathan: Roberto to rewrite up an email about these
<sgg> would the wsdl:rdf element be required for support by WSDL processors?
<Philippe> ACTION: Roberto to rewrite up an email about these
* RRSAgent records action 1
<JacekK> the wsdl:rdf element could be ignored completely by processors not
interested in the RDF representation of the WSDL doc

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8.  Single service per interface motivation [.1, .2]
    Comments on the pretty pictures [.3].  Simplification of the
    Simplification proposal [.4].

[.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003May/0095.html
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003May/0104.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0023.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jun/0031.html

<scribe> Amy: proposes to return to the containment approach of WSDL 1.1
<scribe> Sanijiva: most people don't find containment interesting
<scribe> Jonathan: a lot of debate on this model, even outside of this group
<scribe> Mike agrees with this proposal
<scribe> Igor: still has the concerns expressed in previous emails
* sanjiva straw poll?
<scribe> David: can we itemize the pros and cons?
* umit +1 to straw poll
* Philippe +1 to straw poll
* JacekK +1 to straw poll
<scribe> Igor: curious about what products need this
<scribe> Jonathan: took a straw poll at the F2F, and majority were in favor
of adopting the single service per interface proposal
* Philippe notes that no one supported serviceGroup during the f2f meeting
<scribe> David: two questions: one for targetResource, and one for single
service
<scribe> ACTION: Igor to write up about pros and cons of the single service
proposal
* RRSAgent records action 2
<scribe> Arthur: would be nice to have programming language interfaces
mappings
<scribe> Amy: not in favor of Arthur's proposal, wants to keep WSDL language
independent
<scribe> Jonathan: introducing language bindings without impacting other
WSDL offerings is nice
<scribe> Umit: simplification introduced by adopting single service per
interface may benefit people down the road
<sanjiva> q+
<scribe> It is a GRID requirement
<scribe> Sanjiva: targetResouce is more dynamic
<scribe> Jonathan: do we agree on the pictures?
<Philippe> http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl12/Service-Resource.png
<Philippe> http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl12/Service-Resource2.png
<scribe> Igor: want to have a new picture that includes additional items
* Philippe proposes a picture contest
<scribe> Jacek: also likes to have a different diagram
<scribe> ACTION: Igor to come up with a new diagram
* RRSAgent records action 3
<scribe> Jonathan: would like to close this issue soon

TIME IS UP, TELCON IS OVER
Received on Thursday, 19 June 2003 16:15:09 GMT

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