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Re: Question on the boundaries of content negotiation in the context of the Web of Data

From: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:02:36 +0000
To: "Williams, Stuart (HP Labs, Bristol)" <skw@hp.com>
CC: Ian Davis <me@iandavis.com>, "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
Message-ID: <C5BB582C.1E69%michael.hausenblas@deri.org>


Stuart,

> Well I'm sorry that you appear to find my responses on the topic unhelpful ...

Sorry, didn't mean to say that your responses where unhelpful in the first
place. The problem is rather that there are so many answers around so that
whatever position one is trying to back up one could find a statement that
supports ones argument. This is, I think, in the long-term unhealthy.

> and even off topic!

Nah, off-topic is such a hard word :)

No, I really appreciate the time you take and the good explanations you've
given. I've just sometimes hard times to relate them to my question. As I've
seen discussions around this topic quite often now already (not only on TAG,
to be fair) I wanted to come up with a concrete, real-world example (hence I
did not choose some 'http://example.org'-stuff which is nice is theory, but
you can't really demo and argument it *in practice*).

My main goal was to elicit a citation (which didn't happen so far), and if
this is not possible, to motivate the TAG to finally address this issue
(which I hope will happen).

Re the refs you have listed (http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#frag-coneg, Roy's
PhD and publication, etc.) I have to admit that they (at least for me) do
not answer my question (that is: I am aware of them) - anyways, thanks for
the direction.

I guess, at the end of the day this will boil down to a definition or
description or whatever of 'equality', maybe depending on the context and
along with some good practices.

However, when our children come up with such high expectations I always ask
them: how many days still left till Xmas? ;)

Cheers,
      Michael

-- 
Dr. Michael Hausenblas
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
National University of Ireland, Lower Dangan,
Galway, Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://sw-app.org/about.html
http://webofdata.wordpress.com/


> From: "Williams, Stuart (HP Labs, Bristol)" <skw@hp.com>
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:48:31 +0000
> To: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>, Ian Davis
> <me@iandavis.com>, "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
> Subject: RE: Question on the boundaries of content negotiation in the context
> of the Web of Data
> 
> Hello Michael,
> 
> Well I'm sorry that you appear to find my responses on the topic unhelpful and
> even off topic!
> 
> As for citations, I've already mention
> http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#frag-coneg somewhere in this thread, which is
> pertinant, and I think that Jonathan has given pretty sound respond wrt to
> expectations arising from revisting and sharing web references. The TAG
> finding at http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/alternatives-discovery.html though,
> as I recall, is less careful about speaking in terms of URI for variant (or
> specific) resources than URI for variant representations than I would like. [I
> reject the notion that the URI names/identifies the awww:representation
> returned - it names/identifies the resource that the awww:representation is
> of].
> 
> Roy Fieldings writings on REST are relevant and the short paper[1]
> particularly the description of resources and representations is worth a read
> if you have not done so.
> 
> There may be more to find in the deep and long history of writings about the
> web... particularly in respect of content-negotiation, but I don't know where
> they are either.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Stuart
> --
> [1] http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/webarch_icse2000.pdf
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: www-tag-request@w3.org [mailto:www-tag-request@w3.org]
>> On Behalf Of Michael Hausenblas
>> Sent: 13 February 2009 12:35
>> To: Ian Davis; www-tag@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: Question on the boundaries of content
>> negotiation in the context of the Web of Data
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> TAG members, Ian,
>> 
>>> Surely the turtle document is allowed to be an incomplete description,
>>> especially under open world assumptions. Would you make the same comment if
>>> I content negotiated a grayscale version of the same image?
>>  
>> Thanks for bringing the discussion back to the actual topic, Ian ;)
>> 
>> Honestly, I must admit that I'm a bit disappointed. I *thought* I've clearly
>> articulated my question (and I still don't know what is missing from my side
>> that I get clear answers - please let me know) and added a request for an
>> issue here. In my understanding both were not addressed/answered in a
>> satisfying way. I appreciate when a TAG member (thanks, Jonathan, this helps
>> me feeling a bit less lost) states [1] :
>> 
>> 'I'm as starved of citations on this subject as you are.'
>> 
>> However, I'd really like to hear from a chair or whoever feels responsible
>> if or how the TAG intents to address my question/issue.
>> 
>> I'm not asking to waste your and my valuable time. I'm asking to get answers
>> that I can use in my daily work. FWIW - as I'm really interested into
>> finding answers here - I volunteer to write up something, if necessary. But,
>> please, dear TAG, don't let this IMHO important discussion
>> (again) move into a dead end.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>>       Michael
>> 
>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Feb/0080.html
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dr. Michael Hausenblas
>> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
>> National University of Ireland, Lower Dangan,
>> Galway, Ireland, Europe
>> Tel. +353 91 495730
>> http://sw-app.org/about.html
>> http://webofdata.wordpress.com/
> 
> --
> Hewlett-Packard Limited registered Office: Cain Road, Bracknell, Berks RG12
> 1HN
> Registered No: 690597 England
> 
Received on Friday, 13 February 2009 17:03:17 GMT

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