W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > August 1996

Frames and Documents

From: Steve Knoblock <knoblock@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:18:36 -0400
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960828151836.00740a34@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
To: Stephanos Piperoglou <stephanos@trillian.hol.gr>, Mary Morris <marym@Finesse.COM>
Cc: www-html@w3.org, www-style@w3.org
It might solve the problem of bookmarking, but I hope you are not proposing
that frames cannot load independent files. Of course you could use the
single page for the initial load (introductory material and cover graphics).
This would be helpful---presently frames require you to create this kind of
material if you do not want blank frames on initial load---in gathering the
introductory material into the same place. On the other hand, perhaps as url
could be specified for the initial files with url(...).

Here are the major problems I have encountered with frames and my $0.02:

1) Not being able to bookmark the pages in the frame in an easy way.

MSIE does allow you to view source from a right click and to save a bookmark
for the frame pages. But I am not sure that is the best method.

2) Bookmarking the frameset page is not bookmarking a document.
Maybe frames should be stored on the users side and selectable like multiple
style sheets are for giving users a choice e.g. big print. Should they be a
more general mechanism of arranging things in the window without regard to
author content? Except for dtp-like uses within the page?
 
3) When browsing, framed pages do not show their titles (makes a book hard
to follow).
The <title> of sub-pages does not show in the window title, only the
frameset title shows. This is disconcerting when reading a document with
sub-sections.

4) When a person hist a sub-level page on a search engine, it is out of
context (of the frameset)
I feel css could really help solve this. Each document that is viewable in a
frameset would link to that frameset in the style sheet. When pulled up it
would at least  load the frameset with any navigation related frames loading
automatically. I feel the document should be responsible for keeping  track
of what frame its in----by know what style sheet to use for the  frame
definition---and that definition would contain the size of the frames---and
that style sheet would be cached.

5) If you have an option to view pages with out frames, the outside links
that require the target="_top" open a new window.
I would like a way to specify how link should behave in and out of frames.

Steve


At 11:28 AM 8/28/96 +0000, Stephanos Piperoglou wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Aug 1996, Mary Morris wrote:
>
>> One of the biggest problems that I have heard from the usability
>> people is that frames don't allow you to bookmark places very
>> well because each frame is an individual document, thus you can
>> get various combinations of documents. How are we going to deal
>> with the addressing issues?
>> 
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
   _/     Steve Knoblock 
             knoblock@worldnet.att.net
   _/     City Gallery - History of Photography
             http://www.webcom.com/cityg  
   _/     Member:  National Stereoscopic Association
            http://www.tisco.com/3d-web/nsa/nsa.htm
Received on Wednesday, 28 August 1996 11:28:02 GMT

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