images as bullets in <UL>

Charles Peyton Taylor (CTaylor@wposmtp.nps.navy.mil)
Thu, 16 May 1996 14:20:43 -0800


Message-Id: <s19b39da.023@wposmtp.nps.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 14:20:43 -0800
From: Charles Peyton Taylor <CTaylor@wposmtp.nps.navy.mil>
To: www-html@w3.org
Subject:  images as bullets in <UL>

Okay, after looking at the DTD (they make more sense the 
more you look at them)  I see less and less of a reason 
not to let images be used as bullets in some future 
version of HTML, other than the fact that Marc and Bill 
don't support them (yet).

I also looked at the object draft, but I don't think 
<object> is the way to go because it not only does 
images but also other things like quicktime movies,
which I don't see as being good list bullets.
(again, this is my opinion.)  On the other hand,
sounds in a speech browser ...

The objection to having src in UL's is that it 
didn't cover things like height and
width attributes which really enhance the
presentation of image.  But, there is no
overlap of attributes between lists and 
images. 

I've copied lists of attributes out of the DTD
for Wilbur:

IMG attributes:
 src     %URL     #REQUIRED  -- URL of image to embed --
 alt     CDATA    #IMPLIED   -- for display in place of image --
 align   %IAlign  #IMPLIED   -- vertical or horizontal alignment
--
 height  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested height in pixels --
 width   %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested width in pixels --
 border  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested link border width --
 hspace  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested horizontal gutter --
 vspace  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested vertical gutter --
 usemap  %URL     #IMPLIED   -- use client-side image map --
 ismap   (ismap)  #IMPLIED   -- use server image map --

The align, usemap, and ismap attributes have no value
in lists, as far as I can see.  Alt *might* be useful
for specifying asterisks, exclamation points, etc. to 
be used instead of an image, perhaps even using a word.

Also from the wilbur DTD:

UL attributes:
 type    (%ULStyle)   #IMPLIED   -- bullet style --
 compact (compact)    #IMPLIED   -- reduced interitem spacing --

LI attributes:
 type   (%LIStyle)    #IMPLIED   -- list item style --
 value    NUMBER      #IMPLIED   -- reset sequence number --

BTW: does this mean you could use the type attribute
with an <LI> inside an <OL>, or the value attribute 
with an <LI> inside a <UL>?  It validates at Webtech's
validator.

But, if we add those features of <IMG> that would be
useful for bullets to <UL> and <LI>, then we have
this:

UL attributes:
 type    (%ULStyle)   #IMPLIED   -- bullet style --
 compact (compact)    #IMPLIED   -- reduced interitem spacing --
 src     %URL     #IMPLIED   -- URL of image to be used as bullet
--
 alt     CDATA    #IMPLIED   -- for display in place of bullet
image --
 height  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested height in pixels of
bullet image --
 width   %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested width in pixels of
bullet image --
 hspace  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested horizontal gutter of
bullet image --
 vspace  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested vertical gutter of
bullet image --

LI attributes:
 type   (%LIStyle)    #IMPLIED   -- list item style --
 value    NUMBER      #IMPLIED   -- reset sequence number --
 src     %URL     #IMPLIED   -- URL of image to be used as bullet
--
 alt     CDATA    #IMPLIED   -- for display in place of bullet
image --
 height  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested height in pixels of
bullet image --
 width   %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested width in pixels of
bullet image --
 hspace  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested horizontal gutter of
bullet image --
 vspace  %Pixels  #IMPLIED   -- suggested vertical gutter of
bullet image --

(notice that src was changed to #implied when 
copied from the IMG list.)

The only thing close to overlaping that I see is with 
type and alt.  What would be the default behavior if 
both were specified?  IMHO, the User Agent should use
the image, or if not the image then the type, or if 
not the type, then the alt text.

<ul type=disc src="redball.gif" alt="o"
In this example, if I'm using a gui browser with 
"auto-load images" turned on, the the UA should use 
the image.  If I have it turned off, then it should use
the disc.  If I'm using a text browser, then it
should use the "o".

Comments?

C  h a r l e s    P e y t o n   T a y l o r        
ctaylor@nps.navy.mil

The opinions and views expressed       ##  even though we're on
our own,

are my own and do not reflect          ##        we are never all
alone,

Those of the Naval PostGraduate School ##  when we are singing,
singing.

                   http://vislab-www.nps.navy.mil/%7ectaylor/