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Re: Real world example of destructive onfocus

From: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:20:17 -0500
Message-Id: <200103131459.JAA6078314@smtp2.mail.iamworld.net>
To: aaronl@netscape.com (Aaron Leventhal), w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
At 12:15 AM 2001-03-13 -0800, Aaron Leventhal wrote: 
>
> In my view, onfocus and onblur events are not used in ways destructive to
> accessibility. Perhaps someone can prove me wrong.
> I also think it's putting a big burden on developers, and the complexity of
> the UI, to support navigating to elements without focusing there.


AG:: Is this your impression of what is being asked? 

What if the kind of 'navigating' we are talking about is precisely "focusing
there."  The condition for creation of the onFocus event happens.  The
event is
created.  This would leave the implementation the job to intercept the onFocus
event so that it does not reach its handler without further approval.

Is that onerous?

Capturing the event is functionally similar to the example David Poelman
mentioned 

 <http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004C&L=adv-html&P=R636>http://bama.u
a.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004CL=adv-html&P=R636 

in his post at

 blocking enter key form submission:

 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html>http:
//lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html

If capturing the onFocus event is onerous, do you have a non-onerous solution
to satisfying Checkpoint 5.4 on form submission?


>
> Personally, if we can't find a real world example, I'd like to see onfocus
> and onblur events excluded from the bit about needing to navigate without
> setting off event handlers. Unless someone can argue a good case where it's
> really useful.


AG:: 

You don't need to find an actual old paint can of kerosene soaked rags in your
neighbor's house to have a rule against them.

There have been a lot of casualties from use of onChange to submit forms. 
While it is true that there is a way to use the screen reader interface to
work
around this, it is risky to rely for public safety on "there is a safe way to
use this."  

Maybe we should make the technology safe without requiring casualties first.

Al


>
> Aaron
>
> jon gunderson wrote:
>>
>>
>> Does any body have any information on the current use of onFoucs and>>
onBlur events?>> >> Jon>> >> >> On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Aaron Leventhal
wrote:>> >> </pre>>> <blockquote type=cite cite>>> Can anyone find a real
world example where the automatic onfocus that's >> called is something you
don't want automated?>> BTW, thanks to Gregory for the example (albeit
strange) of the >> destructive this.close() call.>> >> Aaron>> >> >> -- >>
For information about Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, >>
please see the Access Mozilla <a
href="http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/"
eudora="autourl">&lt;http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net&gt;</a> >>
website.>> To join the mozilla-accessibility mailing list, send email to >>
<a
href="mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org">mozilla-accessibilit
y!>> -request@mozilla.org</a> >> <a
href="mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3Fsubject=subscribe"
eudora="autourl">&lt;mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org?subjec
t=subscribe&gt;</a>, >> subject &quot;subscribe&quot;.>> >> >> >>
</blockquote></blockquote>>> <font size=3>-- <br>>> For information about
Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, please see the <a
href="http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net">Access Mozilla</a>
website.<br>>> To join the mozilla-accessibility mailing list, send email
to <a
href="mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org?subject=subscribe">mo
zilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org</a>, subject
&quot;subscribe&quot;.<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> </blockquote><br>>>
</font></html>>>
>>>
>>> Can anyone find a real world example where the automatic onfocus that's
>>> called is something you don't want automated? BTW, thanks to Gregory for
>>> the example (albeit strange) of the destructive this.close() call.
Aaron --
>>> For information about Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, please
>>> see the Access Mozilla
>>> <http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/><http://access-mozilla.sourcefor
>>> ge.net> websit
Received on Tuesday, 13 March 2001 10:00:26 GMT

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