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RE: How to complain?

From: Harry Woodrow <harrry@email.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:27:54 +0800
To: "Kynn Bartlett" <kynn-edapta@idyllmtn.com>
Cc: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <FKEBLOLNECEDBLGBKJJJOEBCCCAA.harrry@email.com>
Hi Kyn
You said
 I offer these sites because I assume
your point is to discredit me (nice try) rather than have meaningful
discussion, for which I applaud you for your brazen lack of decency.
Keep it up.

I say

No Kynn, this was not done to discredit you but to indicate that much as
your methods may be good ones they do not allways work.

I normally would not have posted a members site like this however it has
appeared in every signature together with your current position. (By the way
I am sorry you are looking for another job and I hope you get a satisfying
one soon).

Your personal site is very interesting, relevent and informative.

My position with this 'debate' is that I too have been rather uncomfortable
with it.  At no time have I tried to blame any developer, they are doing
their job as the company requires, but rather that the responsibility is
with the company.  A letter or email to the webmaster is a letter to the
company however and the response to that must be judged in that context, a
reply from the company.

I think we have common goals but may differ in our viewpoint.  You seem to
feel that the site belongs to the company and while they can improve it is
their decission whether to do so or not.

My view is that once a site is published it is public.  All public have a
RIGHT of access to that site.  Just as an employer cant discriminate in a
workplace by providing for example no toilets for female staff, a company
cannot discriminate by not providing adequate access to a site.  I know
discrimination is not a lable people feel comfortable with but I like to
call a spade a spade.

I think where we differ is that I believe it is the right of people with
disabilities to complain.  It is the Responsibility of the companies to
respond.

THere are many ways of complaining.  You have indicated the one you prefer,
I have indicated that the effect of that in the case fo the company that has
been posting regularly at this site has not aparently worked.

We are all after the same thing and your own website is impressive, to me it
would have have made a better signature.


Regards

Harry

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Kynn Bartlett
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:37 AM
To: Harry Woodrow; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Cc: cws@reef.com
Subject: Re: How to complain?


At 9:27 AM +0800 2001/11/01, Harry Woodrow wrote:
>Sorry I cant afford to waste stamps but maybe you would like to write to
the
>developer of this site for me Kynn.  Just ask him if there was a reason
that
>ALT descriptors arent used please.
>
>http://www.reef.com

Basically, because despite Reef's lip service to 508 compliance and
accessibility, the company has refused since January to listen when
their in-house accessibility expert makes recommendations, despite
the fact that the company's credibility as an accessibility solution
suffers great for it.  Is it incompetency?  Laziness?  Lack of
education?  Likely all of the above, quite honestly.

By the way, said accessibility expert was recently terminated and his
last day is November 12.  So if you know of any companies who actually
are interested in both trying to cash in on 508 _and_ actually set
a good example, drop me a note, and I will get you on touch with
said accessibility expert.  (Although, all things considered, he
doesn't come cheap.)

If you're looking for sites that I'm responsible for, you could try
Idyll Mountain Internet's web site (www.idyllmtn.com), my own personal
site (www.kynn.com), the HWG site -- which I'm no longer responsible
for but for which I did the primary design -- or any of the sites
designed by my wife's Idyll Mountain Internet.  As a hint, the most
glaring accessibility error is the same as on the WAI homepage --
they lack useful illustration.  I offer these sites because I assume
your point is to discredit me (nice try) rather than have meaningful
discussion, for which I applaud you for your brazen lack of decency.
Keep it up.

--Kynn

--
Kynn Bartlett <kynn@reef.com>
Technical Developer Liaison
Reef North America
Accessibility - W3C - Integrator Network
___________________________________________
BUSINESS IS DYNAMIC. TOADS RULE IN EXILE.
___________________________________________
http://www.reef.com
Received on Wednesday, 31 October 2001 21:28:38 GMT

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