W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org > February 2000

RE: Technique 3.3.A - checking for style sheets

From: Michael Cooper <mcooper@cast.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:27:36 -0500
To: "Wendy A Chisholm" <wendy@w3.org>, <w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <NCBBJOMIELMIDGCAPFCIEEILCPAA.mcooper@cast.org>
Ok, if I understand what you meant, we should trigger Technique 3.3.1 -
suggest using stylesheets - on elements that should be replaced by
stylesheets, such as FONT and TABLE (for layout). And we should do so even
if we find the page also uses stylesheets on other elements. Is that right?
That approach would make sense to me.

In that case, maybe I would after all suggest we remove the check for the
presence of LINK REL="stylesheet", the STYLE element, and the STYLE
attribute. We don't want to trigger a recommendation to use stylesheets on a
stylesheet. Those will of course trigger the separate technique to make sure
stylesheets degrade gracefully.

Just to muddy the waters, what about a situation where an author used FONT
elements, and used a stylesheet to redefine the FONT element (used a .font
selector, or used a CLASS attribute in the FONT element that the stylesheet
defined, or even an ID attribute)? I would suggest that the author has both
used stylesheets and made sure they degrade gracefully, and we wouldn't want
to trigger either technique. I know that this depends on processing
stylesheets, which we probably won't implement in this version of the
Techniques, but I'd like to see how that sits.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-er-ig-request@w3.org
> [mailto:w3c-wai-er-ig-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Wendy A Chisholm
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 5:51 PM
> To: Michael Cooper; w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Technique 3.3.A - checking for style sheets
>
>
> I think we need to check for all of them.  Some people may use a style
> sheet for some things and FONT for others.  Therefore, going
> through all of
> the checks seems appropriate.
> --w
>
> At 05:24 PM 2/22/00 , Michael Cooper wrote:
> >No, I wasn't suggesting we remove the evaluation to check for inline or
> >external stylesheets. My interpretation of the technique is that we check
> >for the presence of stylesheets (first evaluation point); if we
> don't find
> >them, but we do find elements that should be replaced by stylesheets
> >(remaining evaluation points, such as fonts, tables, etc.), then
> we trigger
> >this technique. Is that how everyone else reads it? Maybe the
> wording could
> >be cleared up a little bit if so.
> >
> >Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wendy A Chisholm [mailto:wendy@w3.org]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 4:43 PM
> > > To: w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org; Michael Cooper
> > > Subject: RE: Technique 3.3.A - checking for style sheets
> > >
> > >
> > > I added the following to the list of triggers;
> > > If layout tables are identified (see technique 5.1.1),
> trigger this check
> > > as well.
> > >
> > > michael,
> > > does your comment imply that we ought to get rid of the first check:
> > > Check the document for presence of STYLE or LINK rel="stylesheet"
> > > elements
> > > within the HEAD element or use of "style" attributes throughout
> > > the document.
> > > --wendy
> > >
> > > At 07:10 PM 2/20/00 , Michael Cooper wrote:
> > > >I like the idea to trigger the suggestion to use stylesheets
> on just a
> > > >couple of elements, such as FONT, where a stylesheet can be
> used. I would
> > > >add that it's very important to trigger this if we find a
> layout table as
> > > >well. I think one of the big intents of stylesheets was to be able to
> > > >position items that way and move away from layout tables
> altogether. Once
> > > >CSS is widely supported, we would want to see layout tables disappear
> > > >entirely.
> > > >
> > > >Michael
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: w3c-wai-er-ig-request@w3.org
> > > > > [mailto:w3c-wai-er-ig-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Wendy A Chisholm
> > > > > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 3:48 PM
> > > > > To: Leonard R. Kasday; w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Technique 3.3.A - checking for style sheets
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >   I tried to incorporate your comments, Len, in the following
> > > proposal.
> > > > > Hopefully it conveys that if none of the presentation elements or
> > > > > attributes exist then we just need to verify that structural
> > > elements are
> > > > > not being abused.  Perhaps this ought to link to those
> > > techniques.  For
> > > > > now, I suggest "verify that the author has chosen not to modify
> > > > > presentation in any way."  that's pretty open-ended, perhaps
> > > too much so?
> > > > >
> > > > > <blockquote>
> > > > > Technique 3.3.1 [priority 2] Check document for use of
> style sheets.
> > > > > Discussion Status:
> > > > > awaiting discussion
> > > > > Evaluation:
> > > > > Check the document for presence of STYLE or LINK rel="stylesheet"
> > > > > elements
> > > > > within the HEAD element or use of "style" attributes throughout
> > > > > the document.
> > > > > Check for FONT and BASEFONT elements, and the "text," "vlink,"
> > > > > "link," and
> > > > > "alink" attributes on BODY.
> > > > >
> > > > > Example of a message to be displayed:
> > > > > Use style sheets to control layout and presentation. For
> > > example, use the
> > > > > CSS 'font' property instead of the HTML FONT and BASEFONT
> elements to
> > > > > control font styles
> > > > >
> > > > > Repair Technique:
> > > > > If none of these elements are identified, verify that the author
> > > > > has chosen
> > > > > not to modify the presentation in any way.
> > > > >
> > > > > If FONT or BASEFONT elements or "text," "vlink," "link,"
> and "alink"
> > > > > attributes on BODY, suggest or help the author convert
> the presentatin
> > > > > properties to style sheets.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the author chosses to convert deprecated markup to style
> > > sheets or add
> > > > > style sheets, trigger technique 6.1 to verify that the document
> > > > > is readable
> > > > > when style sheets are not applied.
> > > > > </blockquote>
> > > > > At 09:37 PM 1/30/00 , Leonard R. Kasday wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >>Check document for presence of STYLE or LINK
> > > rel="stylesheet" elements.
> > > > > >>If neither occur, then provide a user notification.
> > > > > >>Example Language:
> > > > > >'
> > > > > >What if a person simply wants to do straight HTML with
> nothing but
> > > > > >structural elements, e.g. H1, H2, UL, <STRONG> etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >We don't want to say they must use style sheets if they have
> > > no wish to
> > > > > >change browser's default fonts etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >So it woulb be bettter to restrict this notification to
> > > cases where some
> > > > > >other means such as font is used for things that font could
> > > be used for.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Len
> > > > > >-------
> > > > > >Leonard R. Kasday, Ph.D.
> > > > > >Institute on Disabilities/UAP, and
> > > > > >Department of Electrical Engineering
> > > > > >Temple University
> > > > > >423 Ritter Annex, Philadelphia, PA 19122
> > > > > >
> > > > > >kasday@acm.org
> > > > > >http://astro.temple.edu/~kasday
> > > > > >
> > > > > >(215) 204-2247 (voice)
> > > > > >(800) 750-7428 (TTY)
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > wendy a chisholm
> > > > > world wide web consortium
> > > > > web accessibility initiative
> > > > > madison, wi usa
> > > > > tel: +1 608 663 6346
> > > > > /--
> > > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > wendy a chisholm
> > > world wide web consortium
> > > web accessibility initiative
> > > madison, wi usa
> > > tel: +1 608 663 6346
> > > /--
> > >
>
> --
> wendy a chisholm
> world wide web consortium
> web accessibility initiative
> madison, wi usa
> tel: +1 608 663 6346
> /--
>
Received on Thursday, 24 February 2000 11:29:21 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0 + w3c-0.30 : Thursday, 9 June 2005 12:10:34 GMT