W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-ws-chor@w3.org > April 2003

Re: Abstract Bindable Choreography

From: Assaf Arkin <arkin@intalio.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:49:21 -0800
Message-ID: <3E8E0BF1.9070807@intalio.com>
To: Stephen White <swhite@SeeBeyond.com>
CC: Ricky Ho <riho@cisco.com>, Martin Chapman <martin.chapman@oracle.com>, "Burdett, David" <david.burdett@commerceone.com>, "WS Choreography (E-mail)" <public-ws-chor@w3.org>

On the one hand I want to say that the choreography language should not 
depend on any particular visual notation. If people prefer to use some 
other notation , abstract or specific, standardized or proprietary, that 
should be allowed. Users may find different notations to be more 
capable, having a better visual represenation or preffered for any other 
reason (e.g. because of tool support).

There is a multitude of notations out there, not just UML and BPMN, and 
users may prefer to use other notations. I don't think we can agree that 
one notation works for all. We definitely can't elect a normative 
notation language, nor should we.

On the other hand, there's a lot of benefit in augmenting examples with 
a visual diagram. A picture is worth a thousand words. So we should at 
least elect some notation strictly for the purpose of illustrating 
examples. If nothing else, it would help the reader to better understand 
the specification.

The notation must be:
a) not specific to one tool
b) as natural as possible making it easy to read
c) but also documented for reference purposes
d) as close as possible to the domain
e) not restrictive - the notation should adapt to what we want to 
express, not the other way

The benefit of BPMN is that it meets all these requirements. If we come 
up with a specific thing we want to express, Stephen can feed these 
requirements back to the BPMN working group to propose a natural visual 
representation, and also to come up with simple mapping rules between 
the visual notation and the language.

I am definitely in favor of using BPMN in a non-normative fashion as a 
means to illustrate examples.

arkin


Stephen White wrote:

>In terms of using diagrams for helping to understanding the use cases, I would like to recommend using BPMN, which is a standard being developed by BPMI. This form of diagramming is being developed by business analysts to promote easy understanding of internal and B2B (choreography) business processes and their relationships. Technical mappings from the diagrams to XML languages are being developed for BPEL4WS and BPML. Mappings to specifications like WSCI are planned and certainly the output of the Choreography Working Group would mapped by the developers of BPMN.
>	
>I have sent in some examples of these diagrams for some of the use cases.
>
>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2003Apr/0062.html
>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2003Apr/0059.html
>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2003Mar/0228.html
>
>Any comments?
>
>-Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ricky Ho [mailto:riho@cisco.com]
>Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:52 PM
>To: Martin Chapman; 'Burdett, David'; 'WS Choreography (E-mail)'
>Subject: RE: Abstract Bindable Choreography
>
>
>I think David's XML model serve the purpose of the choreography definition
>and I don't see why it can't be a potential candidate for our choice.  I
>don't think David is proposing a diagram notation, it is just for helping
>to understand his example.
>
>Rgds, Ricky
>
>At 10:11 AM 4/4/2003 -0800, Martin Chapman wrote:
>
>  
>
>>David,
>>
>>I have a strong feeling that you can get what you want by exstiing
>>technologies such as UML. In the past I have used use cases and activity
>>diagrams to express reusable interactions between parties. Diagramtic
>>notations are explicitly out of scope of our charter, and I'm not sure
>>if there is any benefit in a specific xml language  to express the same
>>thing.
>>
>>Martin.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: public-ws-chor-request@w3.org
>>>[mailto:public-ws-chor-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Burdett, David
>>>Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 11:09 AM
>>>To: WS Choreography (E-mail)
>>>Subject: Abstract Bindable Choreography
>>>
>>>
>>>There has been some discussion around the idea of an abstract
>>>bindable choreography so I thought I would provide an example
>>>in the form of a diagram (PDF) which shows the flow
>>>associated with the placement of an order and an XML
>>>representation of the same in a declarative style. I strongly
>>>suggest you look at the diagram first.
>>>
>>>Comments welcome ;-)
>>>
>>>David
>>> <<PlaceOrderChoreography.pdf>>
>>> <<PlaceOrderChoreography.xml>>
>>>
>>>Director, Product Management, Web Services
>>>Commerce One
>>>4440 Rosewood Drive, Pleasanton, CA 94588, USA
>>>Tel/VMail: +1 (925) 520 4422; Cell: +1 (925) 216 7704
>>>      
>>>
>>mailto:david.burdett@commerceone.com; Web: http://www.commerceone.com
>>    
>>


-- 
"Those who can, do; those who can't, make screenshots"

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Assaf Arkin                                          arkin@intalio.com
Intalio Inc.                                           www.intalio.com
The Business Process Management Company                 (650) 577 4700


This message is intended only for the use of the Addressee and
may contain information that is PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL.
If you are not the intended recipient, dissemination of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this communication
in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments
and notify us immediately.
Received on Friday, 4 April 2003 17:51:00 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:00:58 UTC