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Minutes: DOM3 Events Telcon Agenda, 12 March 2008

From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:57:09 -0400
Message-ID: <47D83595.8040207@w3.org>
To: Web API public <public-webapi@w3.org>

Hi, WebAPI fans-

The minutes for the DOM3 Events telcon on 12 March 2008 can be found here:

  http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html

Or as text below:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                        Web API WG Teleconference
                               12 Mar 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Mar/0050.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-irc

Attendees

    Present
           aemmons, Doug

    Regrets
           Carmelo

    Chair
           Doug

    Scribe
           aemmons

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Issue / Action review
          2. [6]Mouse Wheel
          3. [7]Key Event Order
      * [8]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 12 March 2008

    <shepazu> be right there

    <smaug> Zakim: ??P0 is me

    <smaug> Olli Pettay

    <scribe> Scribe: aemmons

    <scribe> ScribeNick: aemmons

    <shepazu> [9]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/12_Mar_2008

       [9] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/12_Mar_2008

Issue / Action review

    <shepazu> Public issue tracker:
    [10]http://www.w3.org/2006/webapi/track/

      [10] http://www.w3.org/2006/webapi/track/

    [11]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Event
    s.html

      [11] 
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html

    DS: I had two actions

Mouse Wheel

    <shepazu> [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/actions/252

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/actions/252

    <shepazu> ACTION-252: Send mousewheel proposal to list

    <shepazu> [13]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Mousewheel

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Mousewheel

    DS: I added proposal to the wiki
    ... Olli, have you reviewed this yet?

    OP: No, not yet

    DS: (describes proposal)
    ... Single event has all wheelDelta information
    ... The default value for wheelDelta wil always be the larger of x
    or y or z
    ... A flaw in this plan - wheelDelta may not be available

    in Firefox

    OP: Firefox has mousescrollevent

    DS: Do you have issues with using a new event?

    OP: There will be regressions, that is a problem
    ... Perhaps event Google Maps, for exmaple

    DS: Will be a problem for some deployed web applications
    ... I wonder if we can have feedback from Google maps about this
    ... Perhaps we can come up with a way - suggest scripts
    non-normatively for work arounds
    ... Easy? Check if mousewheelevent interface exists, use that
    instead

    OP: Yes, it may still break some sites

    DS: YEs, any change will break sites
    ... Goal is to have least amount of breaks

    OP: In Firefox we have stopped support for some features, there are
    warning messages that some features are depricated and then removed
    ... Some very old NS 4 stuff

    DS: Mose user of mouse whell are fairly modern cases
    ... IN that case, these are the ones probably still live and can
    change to adapt
    ... If you find there is a way you can 'alias' domwheelscroll that
    would be very interesting
    ... The wheelDelta is unitless - there is no range of particular
    numbers

    OP: Somebody was trying to implement pixel scrolling, pixel quite
    different than normal wheelDelta values

    <smaug> [14]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=350471

      [14] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=350471

    DS: I wonder if the term click is wrong here
    ... There is mouse click then delta - could be confused
    ... You can also click a mouse wheel

    AE: Makes sense to try and find something different

    DS: I think we MS in on this, they were the ones who wanted to unify
    it into one mouse event

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to review Mozilla bug for pixel scrolling and
    consider wrt mousewheel proposal [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-258 - Review Mozilla bug for pixel
    scrolling and consider wrt mousewheel proposal [on Doug Schepers -
    due 2008-03-19].

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to give deadline for next week regarding mouse
    wheel [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-259 - Give deadline for next week
    regarding mouse wheel [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-03-19].

Key Event Order

    DS: Regarding mousewheel, Ollie are there more comments

    OP: If the mousewheelevent is cancelled, only vertical is cancelled.
    Why only vertical?

    DS: That is for mouseomniwheel event
    ... Someone may want to cancel default action just for x or y or z
    ... My proposal is if person wants to do that, they cancel the even
    and generate a new one with just wheel delta values that they want
    ... Does this differ from DOMScrollWheel significantly?
    ... Would you mind reviewing it?

    OP: Yes, sure

    DS: My hope is that it is a superset of the Firefox equivalent
    ... I think we use detail

    OP: Called DOMMouseScroll

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to review DOMMouseScroll wrt mousewheel
    proposal [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-260 - Review DOMMouseScroll wrt mousewheel
    proposal [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-03-19].

    <shepazu> [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/actions/251

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/actions/251

    <shepazu> ACTION-251: Provide Andrew with model wording for key
    evnts sequence

    <shepazu> [19]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Key_event_order

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Key_event_order

    DS: This is my proposal
    ... Not solid yet
    ... Misses out on - when textInput is really done and relationship
    to IME ( input method editor)
    ... Oliver Hunt seemed to think it was more complicated, working
    with IME, than I feared
    ... Will defined keypress
    ... But is optional
    ... I thought the wording we use for key order is a SHOULD and
    fallback for MAY where there are system where it differs
    ... This SHOULD be the key event order and if this is not the key
    event order of the native system then the implementation should
    provide an abstraction layer but an implementation MAY give the
    events in the order that the environment generates
    ... Fairly strong while still allowing flexibility
    ... Should give authors a fairly consistent interface

    AE: Sounds reasonable

    OP: I do not like SHOULDs or MAYs

    DS: Yes, there are circumstances where it's hard to avoid

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to test to see if there is an order to keydown
    and keypress [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-261 - Test to see if there is an order to
    keydown and keypress [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-03-19].

    OP: Keydown is always before keypress

    AE: For browsers presumably it's doable to have a consistent key
    sequence across platforms ( DOM events are not system event )
    ... The sequence may be issue for mobile/embedded like TV remote
    controls, etc

    DS: If the device permits, implementers must implement the key order
    in the follwing sequence.

    In the case where the platform generates events in a different
    order, implementations should provide an abstraction layer

    to emulate the sequence above.

    The UA MAY send the events to the user in a different order if they
    are constrained but this is strongly discouraged due to difficulty
    in authoring content

    DS: If we are confident keydown is not repeated, we can take it out

    OP: ( reads off various test results from various platforms for key
    sequence )

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to create illustration of key sequence as a
    tree diagram [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-262 - Create illustration of key sequence
    as a tree diagram [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-03-19].

    AE: Key flow diagram?

    DS: Next meeting we will try and resolve mousewheel

    AE: Perhaps I will add a coupe of actions that I inherited

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to create illustration of key sequence as a tree
    diagram [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to give deadline for next week regarding mouse
    wheel [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to review DOMMouseScroll wrt mousewheel proposal
    [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to review Mozilla bug for pixel scrolling and
    consider wrt mousewheel proposal [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to test to see if there is an order to keydown
    and keypress [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html#action04]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [27]scribe.perl version 1.133
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     $Date: 2008/03/12 19:52:40 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: aemmons
Inferring ScribeNick: aemmons
Found ScribeNick: aemmons
Default Present: aemmons, Doug
Present: aemmons Doug

WARNING: Fewer than 3 people found for Present list!

Regrets: Carmelo
Agenda: [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Mar/0
050.html
Found Date: 12 Mar 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [31]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.h
tml
People with action items: doug

      [30] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Mar/0050.html
      [31] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-webapi-minutes.html

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      [32] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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